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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:21 pm 
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I see it about like this. What do you think conmor?

Level 1 - 10k
Level 2 - 20k
Level 3 - 35k
Level 4 - 50 k
Level 5 - 75k

I figure a 20 percent discount plus juice for having a Dirtamancer. Yes the Crags were cheap comparatively. Also a ten percent discount on higher levels of done all at the same time.

Edelbert is not scouting because i did not think of that. In my head the Mushroomish Kingdom is scouting but i did not consider Edelbert being involved, as he should be.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:54 am 
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    What formula are you using for city production, level^2*100 or level^2*1000?

    also if managed, it might be (level+1)^2*(100/1000)

    the 100 one is probably balanced compared to what you are doing. The discount for having a dirtamancer when upgrading is mostly based upon how much juice and time is spent basically manually upgrading the city. For just being there and spending a small amount of juice, it might be just 5% plus not having to pay for keeping the dock.

    Edelbert is able to realllllllly cheaply make some pretty good scouts, at least for checking for other cities and such. Flying constructs that while delicate af, do not suffer the movement penalties and have pretty good move of their own.

    Even if their spot isn't the best (possibly because of lacking initiative compared to a living scout who might go out of their way to check something out), they are still good enough for their low price that Edelbert should have a transylvito style horde of them. He should also be traveling with a warlord, even if they just spent a turn to pop a stack of stabbers and promoted one to warlord. The extra bonus, plus having a combat unit with him, would be pretty valuable. Plus the random encounters, which are easily dealt with if since the warlord would be accompanying a midlevel adept dirtamancer/novice 4 other things, would be an easy source of xp for a low level warlord.

    Based on what I can tell strategy wise in the comic, leveling warlords early on in your sides growth is very valuable. The xp cant be paid for and is pretty risky to get, but the rewards are a force multiplier to your otherwise weak and basic units.

    The crags, both from the titanic levels of juice from the artifact, and from having a dirtamancer/florist pump them for thousands of turns, should be essentially free and the equivalent of a 7 or 8 defensive and farming wise. They don't have the lava lake or bi link GK did, bit the sheer amount and juice and favorable circumstances would more than equal it. Surrounded by mountains, while you have a dirtamancer.

    according to your formula, the Mushroomish kingdom just spent 275200 schmuckers for the 2 level 5's, which is pretty cheap. A normal straight to 5 with that formula would cost 172000 schmuckers. As stated in comic, the average side has 300-500k schmuckers in bank. So using your formula, the average side would be able to do a straight to 5 level up twice.


    I think it would look a bit more like a simple
    1 to 2 50k
    2 to 3 100k
    3 to 4 200k
    4 to 5 400k

    Also there is debate as to whether or not claiming a city requires a cost. consensus points to no, other wise claiming new cities for a new side would be almost impossible, and creating a new side (without a sponsor or by spinning off) would be even more impossible.

    Using the 100 formula, a 1 to 2 would take most sides their income for a few turns to pull off. A straight 1 to 5 would require their income from city production for 3-8 dozen turns. And that city production isn't including the costs of upkeep. Using the 1000 formula, a 1 to 2 could be done almost every turn. Which again, is not taking into the costs of upkeep. Having to pay upkeep would lengthen the time it takes to get such fund considerably. After all, most sides would have to have an army that takes up their entire schmucker production, or else they would have a weaker army compared to their neighbors, which is never a good thing. It may be that in the early turns of the Mushroomish kingdom, Their 3 level 5's produce enough shmuckers to pay for themselves in 20-25 turns. And that is taking into account upkeep and is their treasury returning to pre mushroomish kingdom levels.

    That being said, having a warlord tag along with Edelbert would help him avoid the blunders he's been making such as not scouting and not having a warlord with him, remembering he would have to cross a river, remembering to cast the peace spell before he's been shived a couple times, etc.

    Also, how long would it take Edelbert to make a tunnel system connecting the cities?
    I'm thinking a dozen or two turns. Them being used against the Mushroomish Kingdom is not much or a concern, since 1) master class dirtamancer, 2) hordes of tunnel capable natural allies.

    Other than that, what are the limits of a thinkshroom? They can make Thinkagrams and that's pretty much all I understand, but how well? To make themselves not be too powerful and not too much like having a full thinkamancer, would their limits be something like they have to connect to another thinkamancer capable unit and it uses all of the juice from both of them?

    Think 1 is in a stack with CWL, so CWL uses Think 1 to connect to Think 2 in another city to give orders and survey how the battle is going, but he couldn't contact warlord 2 in city 3 because he doesn't have a think with him.

    Remember that Maggie is able to make 1 or 2 thinkagrams per turn. So a unit that can make a thinkagram is fine, as long as it is much less powerful and much more limited than an actual thinkamancer.

    Another requirement might be that they have to make contact with the unit they want to thinkagram beforehand, such as if someone was trying to get a hold of a barbarian thinkamancer. That wouldn't be much of a problems in a side's early days, but would be a major restriction wanted to use them as an effective communication network. They couldn't diplomancy unless they had previously made peaceful contact enough to have one of the thinkshrooms contact the CWL or high ranking WL of another side, which would be pretty rare.


    Just remember that the casting specials for non caster units is prefaced with limited for a reason. Archons have limited foolamancy and limited thinkamancy and the mushrooms would have limited fool, think, flower power.

    Anyway, a way to make the restriction less cumbersome might be to have a few dozen thinkshrooms in the capital, each one has had contact with at less 2 or 3 of the thinkshrooms in the field. And if a thinkshroom in the field want to contact another thinkshroom in the field, It would look like this

    Field1 => capital 1=> capital 2 => Field 2

    Draining the juice of all 4 of them.

    The number of scouts each can keep track of might be limited too. (remember that scouts usually have a limited range, but a thinkamancer can extend that range indefinitely. Each Thinkshroom might be able to keep track of 10*level scouts, which occupies their juice as if they made their thinkagram for the day.

    And all of this is still extremely useful, but limited enough to not be game breaking.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:50 am 
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    Okay, reread pertinent chapters. A dirtamancer lowers cost by "a lot" so it might be 20%. Having the city be managed also lowers cost of city improvement, which is probably like 5%. Crafty crags was managed and had a dirtamancer, so it gets the full 25% and whatever lowered cost comes from thousands of turns of juice.

    Oh and keep this in mind

    But twelve stacks of eight Pikers and eleven stacks of six Stabbers had now popped since Ansom fell. Given present circumstances, that was surely worth more than seven Gumps.

    that is 23 turns since gobwin knob and thus 23 turns of popping. Gumps seem to be 3 turns each. an 8 stack of pikers takes 1 turn as does a 6 stack of stabbers.

    Unaroyal was more than two hundred hexes from Gobwin Knob

    That gives some indication of average distance between capitals

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     Post Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:40 am 
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    I have been rereading and I think the numbers are more like what you said although I still think it is more like 50 k increments rather than 100k. I may retcon Riverside and Cliffside to be level 4, I had always considered it anyway.

    The Clay Pigeons have two stats worth anything, Move and Spot. They are not the best Spotters because they lack intelligence but they are still good.

    Edelbert did not take golem because of speed, he needed near full move to get to the sites as fast as he did. He should have been scouting though. Lily was the only mount available, although more are being popped. Edelbert with a Heavy is a fairly formidable combination, and he provides a limited leadership because of his FP. Oh and the only warlords available are Kernel and Arthur. They both have other orders, more details next chapter.

    Roads are faster than tunnels but I agree a tunnel system could be very valuable.

    The Toadie will be receiving some focus in the next chapter. I think you are underestimating Maggies juice. Where do we know she can only send a couple of Thinkagrams a day?

    Anyway the Thinkshroom can make a single Thinkagram to another side per turn. This is voice only, nothing fancy like images or emotions. A Think does not need to be on each end but that reduces the cost considerably. It is about three grams if all calls are inside alliance. Each level they get a little more juice and some sort of capability, like images in their grams or cheaper costs. Also they have no other major Thinkamancy ability, just grams. They do enhance the group connection between the Toadie so more detailed info is passed amongst them via this method; Mother stays well informed.

    It takes one turn to produce a single Arrow Frog, light flying mount w/ limited ranged special. Should it be two do you think??

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     Post Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:20 am 
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    read the beginning of book 3, the ones talking about diplomacy with haggar and such. She can manage a few (2 or so, but that's with doing other stuff like managing the side, keeping track of all the units I think)

    It takes 10 or so turns to pop a warlord, but only 1 turn to pop a stack of stabbers and promote one. They will need extra of either warlords or courtiers anyway to manage the city. So promote 2 or 3 to warlord, leaving one in each city. Courtiers would also be 1 a turn probs. They can manage a city, direct a fight, or do court drama.

    This early on, if they can afford it, they need every level 5 they can. The increased schmucker and unit production is pretty good, even more so when they have so few units that the production heavily outweighs their upkeep.

    Flying mount, probably 1, and even if the clay birds are dragon cwap, they give a spot bonus and pad the stack bonus.

    you are just as killable if they can sneak up on you whether youre a heavy warlord, caster, or an unled stabber

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     Post Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:21 am 
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    15 is up, sorry for the delay. Just having trouble writing recently.

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:44 pm 
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    Loving the story so far... Just wondering when we can expect the next installment?

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:52 am 
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    I am strugstruggling to write right now. I do apologize. I just bought a house, having a baby, unexpected stress at work, and getting back in school; are all factors I am certain.

    Edelbert will be back, hopefully soon. Please be patient with me.

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:02 pm 
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    Salvage wrote:
    I am strugstruggling to write right now. I do apologize. I just bought a house, having a baby, unexpected stress at work, and getting back in school; are all factors I am certain.

    Edelbert will be back, hopefully soon. Please be patient with me.


    No worries! Good luck with IRL commitments, they obviously come first. I'm sure I speak for many readers when I say we'll be here waiting for the next installment of this fascinating view of the dawn of Erfworld, whenever it happens. No rush.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:25 pm 
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    As stated above no worries! I look forward to new posts from you almost as much as I do actual comic posts. I was just worrying about you a bit since you hadn't posted anything in so long. Please take your time. It is far more important that you are happy and everything in your life is in order so that you can write at the peak of your ability and continue to deliver top notch stories than it is to have quick updates. As always, thanks for your epic look at Erfworld.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:13 pm 
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    Hi, just wanted to chime in and say great job!
    I really like what you've written so far and am eager to see where things are going.
    Keep up the good work.

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     Post Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:41 pm 
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    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user has been published! Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    Volume 16 is up. Sorry for the delay.

    @lordtwarog , thaco4 , Bibliomancer - Thank you all. Your kind words, patience and readership are all appreciated.

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     Post Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:44 am 
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    Yay! A new one is up on this.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:20 pm 
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    So SDE has what appears to be either a luckamancy item or a luck+change link item? I would caution though, for them to have so many items that almost guarantee crits, they must be truly suffering in another area. Any battle they don't use the tokens would be a curb stomp (and after a point, even when they are constantly using the tokens if the side doesn't have enough crits). They can't farm for crits either unless they have something like a constant mass infantry warfare against another side. Even then, the crits would only go towards infantry. They would need to be expending a lot of warlords and archery units to do stuff like this. Also thankfully, dirtamancers can repair croaked and almost croaked golems with a comparatively small portion of juice (sizemore did it even after having led tunnel zone warfare against all of jetstone's infantry and had enough left over for the volcano spell). Plus, you only need to heal them to 1 hp, they will heal the rest at turn's start.

    Other thing, when the stack of golems was taking heavy fire, where they falling from poison? If they were, that doesn't make much sense as they are constructs.


    oooooh, idea for the downside of the golden tokens, fairy gold, according to its definition, is money given by fairies that turns to rubbish when put into use. So is it from a fairy natural ally (that would fit a lot)? My suggestion is that at random times, the token turn into pot metal and curse the unit holding them for turns on end (until all the luck from others' usages of the tokens has been redistributed or the unit croaks). That would be karmic.

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