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 Post subject: The Units of Erfworld
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:04 pm 
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What we've seen so far in the comic suggests a pretty diverse selection of potential units that could pop in either cities or the wild. Men of all types and abilities, twolls, spidews, dwagons (of several varieties), gwiffons, megalogwiffs, archons, guard goyles, skanks, doombats, high horses, gobwins, hobgobwins, daemons, witches (several varieties), elves (all kinds), orlies, unipegataurs, and more. And of course there's those units, such as golems, that casters can call up or flat out create.

So, what other kinds of beasts, unit types, natural allies, and caster creations might there be out there in the world?


To start off:

Tweets. Small flying bird units that have a single Hit each, minimal innate combat ability (except for a superb bonus to evade attacks), and lots of Move. They also have natural Findamancy that allows them to locate any unit on a side they belong to (and allied sides) without fail. Mostly used to carry messages for sides that do not have access to Thinkamancers or Hat Magic, though some Tweets can be taught to memorize and recite messages of twenty five words or less.

A favorite food of Puddy Tats.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:43 am 
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    This is a great idea for a thread!

    Here's a side detail from a story I've been working on (that probably won't be plot-centric, or even plot adjacent):

    Ninjas are barbarian units that only spawn at a handful of hidden barbarian city sites. Each is a ranger (knight-class scout) unit with a special associated with their origin village (forest-capable for the Village Hidden In The Leaves, water-capable for the Village Hidden In The Mists, aquatic for the Village Hidden In The Waves, desert-capable for the Village Hidden In The Sands, jungle-capable for the Village Hidden In The Vines, mountain-capable for the Village Hidden In The Peaks, and digging for the Village Hidden In The Hills). They can gain more specials from the following list as they level: ninjutsu (the ability to use activate a scouting veil mid-combat, potentially causing adversaries to lose sight of it), kickjutsu (a massive boost to attack and defense when not in a stack), runjutsu (a massive passive boost to move speed that also reduces the odds of being captured in a chase to virtually nil), trapjutsu (a limited form of Dirtamancy that enables laying traps), throwjutsu (the throwing special), and diejutsu (a limited form of Flower Power that enables the creation of poisons). All ninjas have the can't-stack-with-others special.

    Each Village has a powerful Signamancy/Turnamancy document enshrined at it, which is the code of honor that each ninja is bound to from the turn that they pop. These documents were, legend has it, placed at each of these villages by their founders, uncounted hundredturns ago. As the neighboring Sides have learned to their cost, conquering a Village (if it can be found!) does not grant the ability to pop ninjas, and will draw reprisal from the surviving Villages. Ninjas will depop before they Turn or break a contract.

    Ninjas are not natural allies. They serve no side.

    And yes, both the Village Hidden In The Mists and the Village Hidden In The Waves have near constant bloody skirmishes with pirates (barbarian ships). They tend to win, because really.


    Last edited by Bibliomancer on Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:15 pm 
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    Crisis21 wrote:
    A favorite food of Puddy Tats.


    Puddy Tats:

    Flexible, elastic feline creatures about the size of a Man. They most commonly inhabit Forest, Jungle, or open plains hexes. Puddy Tats can have a wide range of fur patterns and colors, although black and white markings seem to be the most common. In addition, Puddy Tats posses special markings which indicate a mysterious signamancy of their own, frequently appearing as anchors, skull-and-bones, tribal chains, globes with the numeral 8 inside, or, occasionally, the word "Mom". These markings can be transferred from one Puddy Tat to another, by pressing the mark to an un-marked area on the Puddy Tat's hide.

    While a Puddy Tat is not a particularly strong combat unit, each Puddy Tat possesses the Stealth special and they make excellent scouts. Like any Feral, Puddy Tats can be tamed, although their Loyalty is generally quite low, and they make very disobedient soldiers, often looking out for their own best interests.

    Their bodies are composed of a rubbery, elastic material, allowing them to stretch and flex themselves much further than other units. While they have no ranged combat specials, their long, elastic limbs allow them to engage in melee with units far away from themselves, or even low-flying attackers.

    Puddy Tats are natural enemies of Boule Dogs, and will refuse to be tamed by a side which contains such units.

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     Post Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:08 pm 
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    Along those lines...

    Meep Meeps

    Meep Meeps are feral, non-speaking units that pop with the Mount special; some pop with a natural Luckamancy as well. They are large, apparently flightless birds with a high Move score. They tend to pop in desert regions. Like Orlies, they are so called because of the sound they make (in their case, "Meep Meep").

    Wily Coyotes

    Wily Coyotes are a Language-speaking Natural Ally tribe, popping in the same regions as Meep Meeps. They both hunt and tame Meep Meeps for use as food and/or mounts. Like Twolls, they tend to pop with the Fabrication special.

    Anyone want to take Wascally Wabbits?

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     Post Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:25 pm 
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    Pirate: A common slang term for barbarian units with the seafaring special. Warlords of this type are known to have a significant chance of popping with the 'one eye', 'one hand', or 'one leg' negative specials (and often seek the fabrication of replacements in some way). Another oddity is that while seafaring units are incapable of taming feral units, pirate warlords often seem to have a tame companion of some sorts, usually of small size like a pearrot, that likes to sit on their shoulders.

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     Post Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:41 pm 
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    Guildenfern: Forest, tunnel, siege and mountain capable heavies with only 2 move. Gains bonus move while in a stack containing exactly one Rozenkatz. Cannot gain leadership bonuses from royal warlords.

    Rozenkatz: Red and White feline mounts with a hat magic special. Gains attack and defence while in a stack containing exactly one Guildenfern. Cannot gain leadership bonuses from royal warlords.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:19 am 
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    Not really a unit but here it goes: Lüft Waffles

    Air-capable pancakes that often pop as part of a complete breakfast for Archons and other units with the Flight special.

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     Post Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:42 pm 
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    Minidews, dropdews, buggygirls, and mountdews. Based on spidews. also koalas. and dewdrops

    Minidews are spidews, but much much smaller. Even smaller than doombats. They only have 1 hit and 1 combat, but regular move. They only have 1 schmucker upkeep per 10 units. They have a special form of the natural dateamancy of 8 stacks that multiplies the variable by 100. so 800 for a max stack, though even then the bonus is much less than normal.

    minidews have a fabrication special which allows then to create raiment (though only white dresses), though if they have the materials from a fresh corpse also leather-ha) and impossibly strong rope. Other specials are selected from advanced dollamancy, natural dirtamancy, natural flower power (only for poisons), natural dittomancy. Minidews specials are shared among their stack, so if ten have it they all do; downside of which is that the variant specials are very rare, the upside being that these specialized stacks are very useful, especially if it has dittomancy to double the special minidews to create two stacks. Minidew specials are much weaker than normal, with the individual effect being minimal unless they have several turns to build a web of magic (akin to a scroll). These can pop as barbarian or as a unit of a side

    Buggygirls sometimes pop in the same vicinity of dew units. They posses strong natural turnamancy(moneymancy?) and wierdomancy and are knight class. They also benefit from the group specials of minidews if the two rare phenomena ever pop in the same place. The turnamancy almost completely eliminates minidew upkeep and reduces other dew upkeep. It also increases popping rate by 100%, but only for dew units. In the rare case that a Man is trapped rather than killed, the natural wierdomancy is used to "customize" the Man into a loyal servant monster. Yes, buggygirls are based on driders. They are elf-like and are natural allies, but hate elves.

    Dropdews are bear-like spiders that climb trees and ambush travelers walking on the paths below. They have natural dirtamancy and flower power, using them to model the landscape into a garden with giant trees of grass that drop water that always seems to drop with perfect accuracy on travelers. The water is also infused with a poison called wondralous, causing the afflicted to believe they have shrunken, causing various penalties to duty and whatever natural mathamancy regular units have (battle calcs) as they stop to examine their surroundings. (the poison is pronounced Wond-er-al-ice. take a guess.)


    Mountdews are mountain capable with natural dollamancy and rhymeamancy. Their main tactic is to create golems out of their animal victims that first seem to be some type of trophy, and indeed may be. The gruesome golems spring to life and emit a rhymeamancy spell that forces the victims to start dancefighting the nearest enemy. If they cant dance, then they end up spasming on the ground and are easily dispatched. If they are not prepared to dance, they take appropriate penalties. The trophies then combine into an amalgamation of heads, claws, and other impressive body parts taken from the Mountdews slain foes. If the enemy is capable and dressed to dance, then the Mountdew is easily croaked once the golem is.

    The mountdews are based on that one mountain dew commercial with the dancing and singing mounted and stuffed animals.

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     Post Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:57 pm 
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    Hippogwiffs: Big yellow heavies that lurk in rivers and are as dangerous on land as a real hippo.
    Minigwiffs: Tiny bird sized gwiffons.
    White/Black Rooks: Powerful land birds related to crows. Mount units, can handle two riders.
    Tower Ravens: Fly in style in these powerful heavy fliers. Flying towers related to crows obviously. Contain several rooms.
    Shallowtoos: Coastal based underwater capable humanoids, possibly natural allies.
    Rhinogents: Dapper heavy humanoids. Many have top hats and/or targeting monocles.
    Ceiling Cats: Garrison sentinels.
    Yeti: I was sad when Goodminton didn't have any. :(
    Valley Elves: Valley girlesque elves. I was sad when none were with the Juggles. :(
    Whyverns: Dwagonlike units that ask lots of questions.
    Toupée Eagles: Tough light fliers, very sensitive about their hair.
    Chalk Horsies: Mounts popped in hill cities.
    Distal Skulls: Strange humanoid units with ranged bite attacks. Telescopic necks.
    Crystal Gulls: Dangerous sea fliers, known for stealing enemy equipment and aggressive foragaging. Minor magical abilities.
    Venus Flier Traps: Self veiling forest capable plant units.
    Sheeple: Rare and powerful heavy humanoids. Valued natural allies.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:19 am 
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    Puffs: Large kin to Dwagons, they are only found in coastal hexes with the Misty weather. They are powerful, with natural casting abilities. However, if they are not re-tamed every turn by the same unit, they will leave, never to return.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:40 am 
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    The Condoor Tarriers are tribes of natural allies native to a region thick with capital sites and many jostling small sides. They are humanoid, with a distinctly avian appearance (although only a rare few possess the flying special, usually scouts), and they also pop Flufflepups, large, friendly mounts that they ride into battle (but always seem to have trouble inducing to use their bite attacks). Despite being naturally blessed with high move, they tend to arrive late at crucial battles, and they are deplorably bad at siege warfare. Most sides use them to raid opposing sides' farms, mines, and outlying structures, maintaining the status quo in the chaotic region.

    [Based on Condotierri, from the late Middle Ages]

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:25 pm 
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    Harley-Quinns: Special female knight-class units with mounted combat abilities. They always pop with a Turnamancy special that they use to craft a two-wheeled self-propelled personal mount with a great deal of move (higher level Harley-Quinns with leadership are known to add something called a 'sidecar' to carry additional passengers at no penalty to their attack). They can gain random specials from dance-fighting, leadership, mounted combat, Turnamancy, Shockmancy, Lookamancy, and Dollamancy as they level. Their favored raiment material is leather, and a number of sides refer to them as 'Hellabad's Archons'.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:32 pm 
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    Crisis21 wrote:
    Harley-Quinns: Special female knight-class units with mounted combat abilities. They always pop with a Turnamancy special that they use to craft a two-wheeled self-propelled personal mount with a great deal of move (higher level Harley-Quinns with leadership are known to add something called a 'sidecar' to carry additional passengers at no penalty to their attack). They can gain random specials from dance-fighting, leadership, mounted combat, Turnamancy, Shockmancy, Lookamancy, and Dollamancy as they level. Their favored raiment material is leather, and a number of sides refer to them as 'Hellabad's Archons'.


    I love this concept, but I'm hesitant about a unit that's based on the Archon template, as giving casting abilities to non-caster units without some drawback or extreme limitation is incredibly powerful. Maybe replace the non-Turnamancy casting specials with other specials custom to the Harley-Quinns, like Taunt, Oversized Weaponry, and Unique Raiment? Also, I don't like a Harley-Quinn getting a leadership bonus makes any sense. I made a unit earlier in the thread with an archon similar structure, but I was careful to give them some drawbacks (only barbarian poppable) and extremely limited casting equivalents (poisons and traps only). In general, Archons are such a big deal that designing other units should adopt an archon-minus, not archon-equivalent or archon-plus scheme. What do you think?

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:48 pm 
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    Bibliomancer wrote:
    Crisis21 wrote:
    Harley-Quinns: Special female knight-class units with mounted combat abilities. They always pop with a Turnamancy special that they use to craft a two-wheeled self-propelled personal mount with a great deal of move (higher level Harley-Quinns with leadership are known to add something called a 'sidecar' to carry additional passengers at no penalty to their attack). They can gain random specials from dance-fighting, leadership, mounted combat, Turnamancy, Shockmancy, Lookamancy, and Dollamancy as they level. Their favored raiment material is leather, and a number of sides refer to them as 'Hellabad's Archons'.


    I love this concept, but I'm hesitant about a unit that's based on the Archon template, as giving casting abilities to non-caster units without some drawback or extreme limitation is incredibly powerful. Maybe replace the non-Turnamancy casting specials with other specials custom to the Harley-Quinns, like Taunt, Oversized Weaponry, and Unique Raiment? Also, I don't like a Harley-Quinn getting a leadership bonus makes any sense. I made a unit earlier in the thread with an archon similar structure, but I was careful to give them some drawbacks (only barbarian poppable) and extremely limited casting equivalents (poisons and traps only). In general, Archons are such a big deal that designing other units should adopt an archon-minus, not archon-equivalent or archon-plus scheme. What do you think?


    I think Transylvito has Guard Goyles and Skanks (knight-class Guard Goyles) which are pretty heavily implied to be Archon-equivalents. Plus, some of the biggest advantages of Archons are their ability to thinkagram and veil, falling under Thinkamancy and Foolamancy, which I deliberately struck from the list. As well as swapping out 'flying' for 'mounted combat', which is likely much less useful overall.

    Consider this alternative (cribbed and extrapolated from a fic called 'A Handful of Units'):

    Sirens: Female humanoid knight-class aquatic units that can gain random specials from the list of leadership, fabrication, Rhyme-o-mancy, sonic-based Shockmancy, audible Foolamancy, and Findamancy (i.e. Sonar).


    There's precedent for Archon-like knight-class units, each of which would very likely have their own strengths, weaknesses, and unique list of specials they can gain. This doesn't make Archons any less dangerous, just a member of a class of poppable unit sides may or may not have access to. Remember, the biggest deal about Charlie's Archons is that he can pop at least one a turn, meaning he has a lot more of them than any other side on Erf.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:12 pm 
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    Crisis21 wrote:
    Bibliomancer wrote:
    Crisis21 wrote:
    Harley-Quinns: Special female knight-class units with mounted combat abilities. They always pop with a Turnamancy special that they use to craft a two-wheeled self-propelled personal mount with a great deal of move (higher level Harley-Quinns with leadership are known to add something called a 'sidecar' to carry additional passengers at no penalty to their attack). They can gain random specials from dance-fighting, leadership, mounted combat, Turnamancy, Shockmancy, Lookamancy, and Dollamancy as they level. Their favored raiment material is leather, and a number of sides refer to them as 'Hellabad's Archons'.


    I love this concept, but I'm hesitant about a unit that's based on the Archon template, as giving casting abilities to non-caster units without some drawback or extreme limitation is incredibly powerful. Maybe replace the non-Turnamancy casting specials with other specials custom to the Harley-Quinns, like Taunt, Oversized Weaponry, and Unique Raiment? Also, I don't like a Harley-Quinn getting a leadership bonus makes any sense. I made a unit earlier in the thread with an archon similar structure, but I was careful to give them some drawbacks (only barbarian poppable) and extremely limited casting equivalents (poisons and traps only). In general, Archons are such a big deal that designing other units should adopt an archon-minus, not archon-equivalent or archon-plus scheme. What do you think?


    I think Transylvito has Guard Goyles and Skanks (knight-class Guard Goyles) which are pretty heavily implied to be Archon-equivalents. Plus, some of the biggest advantages of Archons are their ability to thinkagram and veil, falling under Thinkamancy and Foolamancy, which I deliberately struck from the list. As well as swapping out 'flying' for 'mounted combat', which is likely much less useful overall.


    I'm pretty sure that Skanks are not as powerful as Archons, otherwise Don King would be actively competing with Charlie for mercenary contracts worldwide. Don King's Thinkamancer+bat setup would be a good substitute for the Arkendish, even if his number of full power Thinkagrams was limited. Remember that Skanks are said to be 'like Archons' in that they have limited casting abilities. From a world balance perspective, this strongly suggests to me that Skanks are to Archons are corgis are to German shepherds: same unit class, but with significantly diminished combat capabilities. If Skanks were Archon-equivalents (in versatility and power level), why aren't any of them shown accompanying Caesar on Transylvito's city attacks?

    Since Skanks are promoted Goyles, and we've only seen Skanks in Transylvito's and Faq's capital, I would suggest that their abilities are tied in some way to city defense.

    More broadly, one of the key factors in Erfworld is how strategically limited a lot of sides are in their unit composition. The So-Be-It Union was a group of four sides with no speciality units of note at all, and they won a war through a pure infantry and cavalry numbers game. Creating new classes of units with anyone like the versatility of Archons doesn't make sense, in a lot of cases.

    Crisis21 wrote:
    Consider this alternative (cribbed and extrapolated from a fic called 'A Handful of Units'):

    Sirens: Female humanoid knight-class aquatic units that can gain random specials from the list of leadership, fabrication, Rhyme-o-mancy, sonic-based Shockmancy, audible Foolamancy, and Findamancy (i.e. Sonar).


    This reinforces my point, actually. Archons are very powerful, very fun units that a lot of fan-fics that I've read end up imitating them in some way because they're just so friggin' cool, and it's easy to write a story around your own group of extra-special awesome sauce units. Contrast this with the 3 backer stories, the prequel stories, and the fanfic stories that get featured in the top bar by Rob. None of these have anything like Archons, and instead create interesting story space with interesting implications / reshuffling of core Erfworld mechanics, terrain types, and side interactions. Strongman The Barbarian and Journey Through The Hungry Jungle are excellent partly because of how restrained they are when they make new units. Archons are highly unusual.

    Crisis21 wrote:
    There's precedent for Archon-like knight-class units, each of which would very likely have their own strengths, weaknesses, and unique list of specials they can gain. This doesn't make Archons any less dangerous, just a member of a class of poppable unit sides may or may not have access to. Remember, the biggest deal about Charlie's Archons is that he can pop at least one a turn, meaning he has a lot more of them than any other side on Erf.


    There isn't clear precedent for it besides Archons, actually. Because sides that don't have Archons don't know what they are or what they do, saying Skanks are 'like Archons' (which is all we've heard said about them, and we haven't seen them in combat) isn't terribly meaningful. Additionally, we have been told that a handful of other sides have archons (and pop them much slower than Charlie). Note that the archons (who have a much broader sense of the world than anyone besides Jillian does individually, and probably a much better sense collectively) told their Chief Warlord about the rare other sides that produce Archons specifically, and didn't mention other unit-equivalents.

    Purely from a numbers perspective, we've seen nearly two dozen canon sides, one of which makes Archons and one of which makes Skanks (again, see above for why these are likely significantly weaker), so this unit type should be very rare, if equivalents exist at all.

    Like I said before, I love the idea of the Harley-Quinn, but designing a unique concept with the Archon chasis is easy because it provides so much flexibility. Trying to design a unique unit with a more limited set of options is more interesting, IMO (note that with ninjas I'm still struggling to pare it down further, because even with the limitations I have they are still Archon-like, even if I succeeded in preventing them from having significant casting abilities).

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:01 pm 
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    Bibliomancer wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that Skanks are not as powerful as Archons, otherwise Don King would be actively competing with Charlie for mercenary contracts worldwide. Don King's Thinkamancer+bat setup would be a good substitute for the Arkendish, even if his number of full power Thinkagrams was limited. Remember that Skanks are said to be 'like Archons' in that they have limited casting abilities. From a world balance perspective, this strongly suggests to me that Skanks are to Archons are corgis are to German shepherds: same unit class, but with significantly diminished combat capabilities. If Skanks were Archon-equivalents (in versatility and power level), why aren't any of them shown accompanying Caesar on Transylvito's city attacks?


    Likely for a few reasons. 1) They take enough turns to pop that Transylvito doesn't have many to begin with. 2) They've been assigned to guard the capitol. 3) Transylvito's battle strategy is warlords leading lots of doombats in a boosted zerg-rush tactic, which the Skanks may not be able to contribute to.

    Keep in mind, if Skanks are Archon-equivalent, they take a fair amount of time to pop for each one, making them valuable units you don't risk without good reason. Again, the big deal about Archons is less their unit type and the fact that Charlie can pop them one per turn without Turnamancy and can give them his leadership and bonus anywhere on Erf. Without those two things, Archons become less of a big deal.

    Bibliomancer wrote:
    Since Skanks are promoted Goyles, and we've only seen Skanks in Transylvito's and Faq's capital, I would suggest that their abilities are tied in some way to city defense.

    More broadly, one of the key factors in Erfworld is how strategically limited a lot of sides are in their unit composition. The So-Be-It Union was a group of four sides with no speciality units of note at all, and they won a war through a pure infantry and cavalry numbers game. Creating new classes of units with anyone like the versatility of Archons doesn't make sense, in a lot of cases.


    We've also yet to see any two sides with the same selection of specialty units, so by that reasoning it does make sense.

    Bibliomancer wrote:
    This reinforces my point, actually. Archons are very powerful, very fun units that a lot of fan-fics that I've read end up imitating them in some way because they're just so friggin' cool, and it's easy to write a story around your own group of extra-special awesome sauce units. Contrast this with the 3 backer stories, the prequel stories, and the fanfic stories that get featured in the top bar by Rob. None of these have anything like Archons, and instead create interesting story space with interesting implications / reshuffling of core Erfworld mechanics, terrain types, and side interactions. Strongman The Barbarian and Journey Through The Hungry Jungle are excellent partly because of how restrained they are when they make new units. Archons are highly unusual.

    Crisis21 wrote:
    There's precedent for Archon-like knight-class units, each of which would very likely have their own strengths, weaknesses, and unique list of specials they can gain. This doesn't make Archons any less dangerous, just a member of a class of poppable unit sides may or may not have access to. Remember, the biggest deal about Charlie's Archons is that he can pop at least one a turn, meaning he has a lot more of them than any other side on Erf.


    There isn't clear precedent for it besides Archons, actually. Because sides that don't have Archons don't know what they are or what they do, saying Skanks are 'like Archons' (which is all we've heard said about them, and we haven't seen them in combat) isn't terribly meaningful. Additionally, we have been told that a handful of other sides have archons (and pop them much slower than Charlie). Note that the archons (who have a much broader sense of the world than anyone besides Jillian does individually, and probably a much better sense collectively) told their Chief Warlord about the rare other sides that produce Archons specifically, and didn't mention other unit-equivalents.

    Purely from a numbers perspective, we've seen nearly two dozen canon sides, one of which makes Archons and one of which makes Skanks (again, see above for why these are likely significantly weaker), so this unit type should be very rare, if equivalents exist at all.

    Like I said before, I love the idea of the Harley-Quinn, but designing a unique concept with the Archon chasis is easy because it provides so much flexibility. Trying to design a unique unit with a more limited set of options is more interesting, IMO (note that with ninjas I'm still struggling to pare it down further, because even with the limitations I have they are still Archon-like, even if I succeeded in preventing them from having significant casting abilities).



    The template for Archons is 'attractive female knight-class units with limited spell-casting ability'. By that definition, skanks (and possibly Guard Goyles if we drop 'knight-class' from the definition) qualify. It's a very broad template to work with, especially if you limit the pool of specials that can be earned.

    Keep in mind that when we were introduced to Dwagons, they were heavy flying mounts and there seemed to be nothing like them anywhere else on Erf. Then bam. Megalogwiffs. Deny it all you want, but Megalogwiffs are clearly meant to be a Dwagon-equivalent unit in terms of overall capability. Does that mean they're the same? No. Megalogwiffs have their own perks and drawbacks, plus they aren't tied to a known arkentool that makes getting a bunch of them feasible.

    Are there Dwagon-like units on Erf? Clearly. Can anyone field them in the way Stanley does? Heck no.

    Are there Archon-like units on Erf? Highly probable. Can anyone field them like Charlie does? I really doubt it.


    And how about them elves? How many canon varieties are we up to? Each unique in their own way? A couple of Archon-equivalents is hardly game-breaking.


    Plus, there's the pun for the Harley-Quinns being 'Hellabad's Archons' that I couldn't pass up. I mean, they're obviously bikers, Archons are 'angels', there's a club of real-world Harley-Davidson owners known as 'Hell's Angels', and really it wouldn't work nearly as well any other way.


    Also, this is supposed to be a thread for people to post ideas for units that might exist on Erfworld. Whether or not they actually do is another issue. Let's just have fun making stuff up.

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     Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:41 pm 
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    Crisis21 wrote:
    Likely for a few reasons. 1) They take enough turns to pop that Transylvito doesn't have many to begin with. 2) They've been assigned to guard the capitol. 3) Transylvito's battle strategy is warlords leading lots of doombats in a boosted zerg-rush tactic, which the Skanks may not be able to contribute to.

    Keep in mind, if Skanks are Archon-equivalent, they take a fair amount of time to pop for each one, making them valuable units you don't risk without good reason. Again, the big deal about Archons is less their unit type and the fact that Charlie can pop them one per turn without Turnamancy and can give them his leadership and bonus anywhere on Erf. Without those two things, Archons become less of a big deal.

    1) You can match the production capabilities of a single city with multiple cities, which Transylvito has. 2) Yes, but why? If they're like gargoyles, a large chunk of their power might be tied to defending cities, which would make them function significantly differently from Archons. 3) If a Skank were like an Archon, they would be perfectly complementary to that: Transylvito's zerg rush relies on using bats to screen more valuable warlords, in addition to boosting those bats with warlords. Adding Skanks to excess bat stacks gives you a lot of firepower without risking the Skank.

    Archons do nearly all of their fighting on their own. Charlie is just one person who can't do multiple things at once, so the dish is only brought in for big battles, according to canon (10+ archons? 20?). They are massively useful without any other boosts, especially supporting warlords. They were caught out at Spacerock without leadership against a multi-caster stack that negated their Foolamancy AND Thinkamancy. It was a hard counter.


    Crisis21 wrote:
    We've also yet to see any two sides with the same selection of specialty units, so by that reasoning it does make sense.


    Canon says that multiple sides field Archons, so I'm not sure what you mean.

    Crisis21 wrote:
    The template for Archons is 'attractive female knight-class units with limited spell-casting ability'. By that definition, skanks (and possibly Guard Goyles if we drop 'knight-class' from the definition) qualify. It's a very broad template to work with, especially if you limit the pool of specials that can be earned.

    Keep in mind that when we were introduced to Dwagons, they were heavy flying mounts and there seemed to be nothing like them anywhere else on Erf. Then bam. Megalogwiffs. Deny it all you want, but Megalogwiffs are clearly meant to be a Dwagon-equivalent unit in terms of overall capability. Does that mean they're the same? No. Megalogwiffs have their own perks and drawbacks, plus they aren't tied to a known arkentool that makes getting a bunch of them feasible.

    Are there Dwagon-like units on Erf? Clearly. Can anyone field them in the way Stanley does? Heck no.

    Are there Archon-like units on Erf? Highly probable. Can anyone field them like Charlie does? I really doubt it.


    And how about them elves? How many canon varieties are we up to? Each unique in their own way? A couple of Archon-equivalents is hardly game-breaking.


    Archons are game-breaking, actually. That's why Charlie uses them. Casting is so powerful that having lots of units with it in a limited form opens all sorts of crazy possibilities. Also, both dwagons and megalogwiffs are heavy fliers, but they're very different functionally. Dwagons have a variety of breath attacks, megalogwiffs have a capture ability (the large carry capability hasn't been shown to be combat applicable yet - it only showed up in Jillian's fantasy evacuation of FAQ, and those riders wouldn't have been fighting [because her gwiffon riders were the battlestar of the group], which suggests that there's a combat penalty for multiple 'riders', otherwise Jillian would have been negligent not to pop archers for her megalogwiffs). A dwagon is to a megalogwiff as an archon is to a poison ivy (see below), not a skank.


    Crisis21 wrote:
    Plus, there's the pun for the Harley-Quinns being 'Hellabad's Archons' that I couldn't pass up. I mean, they're obviously bikers, Archons are 'angels', there's a club of real-world Harley-Davidson owners known as 'Hell's Angels', and really it wouldn't work nearly as well any other way.


    Also, this is supposed to be a thread for people to post ideas for units that might exist on Erfworld. Whether or not they actually do is another issue. Let's just have fun making stuff up.


    It was a very good pun.

    Sounds good. As a peace offering, here's a new unit:

    Poison Ivy: Feared units of the Ivy League, poison ivies are knight-class scouts of the dryad race (the ruling race of the Ivy League). In addition to being forest-capable, poison ivies possess natural Flower Power over poisons, often allowing them to croak enemy warlords at night after emerging from their scouting veils. Between creeping charlies, poison ivy patrols and the tendency of the New Angleland woods to swallow armies without a trace, it has been hundreds of turns since the Ivory Towers have been seriously attacked.

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     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:36 am 
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    Two things: I thought skanks were natural allies.

    The second thing is that skanks could simply have dwagoncwap discipline. If they are away from the party for too long they sober up-excuse me for the joke- and turn Into stone cold britches. Referencing the myth that gargoyles turn Into stone when the sun rises as per that one show.

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     Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:52 am 
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    conmor wrote:
    Two things: I thought skanks were natural allies.

    The second thing is that skanks could simply have dwagoncwap discipline. If they are away from the party for too long they sober up-excuse me for the joke- and turn Into stone cold britches. Referencing the myth that gargoyles turn Into stone when the sun rises as per that one show.


    It doesn't say anywhere that either are natural allies, from what I remember (plus the wiki). I like the idea that they have a party dependency. It fits the Signamancy very neatly and explains why they never seem to leave capitals.

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     Post Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:49 pm 
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    mostly i thought that 'cause they have different names for knight class.

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