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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:30 pm 
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let me say that i did not think that it was possible. when maggie described it, it though you could only cast in a link-up in your own discipline. comic style change again. dont like it as much.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:39 pm 
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    I agree, I didn't expect casting outside your discipline to be possible in a link. But, it was always clear that we didn't really know the answer to that yet. As-is, I'm pleased with the way that was revealed.

    (As for your side-note about the art, I disagree. I very much like this artist better than the other two.)

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:22 pm 
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    He's a master lookamancer - seems perfectly cromulent to me.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:21 pm 
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    It also answers the question of whether a Thinkamancer could use their own secondary specialty AND provide the linkup: no they can't.
    Which implies that unless the arkendish provides an extra oomph (possible), Charlie does not get to contribute carnymancy to his linkups (he probably wouldn't choose to much anyway, we know he doesn't want anyone knowing he's a carny).

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:27 pm 
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    Alpha the White wrote:
    Which implies that unless the arkendish provides an extra oomph (possible), Charlie does not get to contribute carnymancy to his linkups (he probably wouldn't choose to much anyway, we know he doesn't want anyone knowing he's a carny).

    Didn't they already say that's exactly what he did when he 1) Linked with Olive to make Flower Power mimic other disciplines and 2) Made the Turnamancer end GW's Turn?

    Anyway, Isaac using his Lookamancy with Maggie as the Linking caster doesn't necessarily prove Isaac couldn't be both Linker and Caster. Just that he wasn't. After all, Parson has a glut of Thinkamancers. Why increase the risk of injury during a Link by getting stingy with them?

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:24 pm 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    Anyway, Isaac using his Lookamancy with Maggie as the Linking caster doesn't necessarily prove Isaac couldn't be both Linker and Caster. Just that he wasn't. After all, Parson has a glut of Thinkamancers. Why increase the risk of injury during a Link by getting stingy with them?
    If he wanted lower chances of injury, he'd have just done Issac/Ace, because especially when they're done willingly, Bi-links are virtually risk free compared to Tri-links. So the argument actually points the other way.

    And as for Charlie/Dish, I speculate the 'Dish itself functions as a "Thinkamancer" in terms of load capacity. Which makes sense since his links with Olive, and Kingworld both seem like the needed Carnymancy to happen. But it make even more sense when you consider his backstory, and I didn't even realize it until now. Olive said Charlie totally changed when he attuned, lost his will and personality. What else do we know of in Erfworld that does exactly that? Linking! What if attunement to the 'Dish is actually a link? The "Charlie" we knwo today is actually the mind-meld of the Wizard and the "avatar" of the 'Dish that is instilled with the Titan's values and goals. This would explain why he lost interest in peace through conquering, and why his whole MO these days is perpetuating war.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:08 pm 
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    Alpha the White wrote:
    It also answers the question of whether a Thinkamancer could use their own secondary specialty AND provide the linkup: no they can't.
    Which implies that unless the arkendish provides an extra oomph (possible), Charlie does not get to contribute carnymancy to his linkups (he probably wouldn't choose to much anyway, we know he doesn't want anyone knowing he's a carny).


    It's probably difficult to manage two spells at once. Maggie is managing the linking spell, Isaac is providing the lookamancy. Even if it is theoretically possible for Isaac to perform the same thing without a second Thinkamancer, maybe that would require juggling two things out once, giving a higher or even probable chance of either the link or the item crafting failing or both, perhaps with dangerous results to himself or Ace. It also means trying to get more done with the same supply of juice.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:57 pm 
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    Ahem: http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... Parson.jpg

    Quote:
    According to Maggie, a two-caster linkup was a less risky and drastic thing than three, especially when done voluntarily. In it, the Thinkamancer's function was something like "cognitive copilot," managing the other caster's mental functions, focusing his attention and boosting his energy to achieve better results than the caster could alone.


    Rob has already quite clearly explained what a thinkamacer's role is in a linkup, both bilaterally and trilaterally. The job of the thinkamacer is to manage the other caster's mental functions, essentially clearing their mind and giving them a rather heft boost to their ability to focus on the spell. This has been shown to be very taxing on the thinkamacer. I recall it has been stated that "more than three cannot be done", when it comes to linking up. Casting outside of your discipline while in a link, even for something as close to thinkamacy as lookamacy, would probably be nearly impossible for the caster.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:13 am 
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    Jamini wrote:
    Rob has already quite clearly explained what a thinkamacer's role is in a linkup, both bilaterally and trilaterally. The job of the thinkamacer is to manage the other caster's mental functions, essentially clearing their mind and giving them a rather heft boost to their ability to focus on the spell. This has been shown to be very taxing on the thinkamacer. I recall it has been stated that "more than three cannot be done", when it comes to linking up. Casting outside of your discipline while in a link, even for something as close to thinkamacy as lookamacy, would probably be nearly impossible for the caster.
    Well... yeah, except that we've just seen that being done. Like, very specifically that. Isaac is a Thinkamancer who on Book 3 Page 1 used Lookamancy in a linkup. Isaac is an unusually gifted and powerful caster, and Maggie is providing the linkup and making it easier on him, but still, we cannot possibly get better evidence that you can cast outside your natural discipline in a Linkup. That's the point of the thread, after all!

    So what that's left with is that Maggie's role was always what we thought it was - the Thinkamancer does all the heavy lifting. Connects the other two casters, lets them join their magic, acts sorts of as a translator between disciplines. With Maggie doing all that work, Isaac and Ace were free to handle everything else as they pleased. So long as a capable enough Thinkamancer is handling the link, the other two casters can do as they like and cast any spell they're capable of casting, regardless of discipline. We can draw from this that it's down to the Thinkamancer's skill level. So in theory, a powerful enough Thinkamancer - or perhaps Charlie with the Arkendish functioning as one - could possibly do a Four-Way Linkup. But it'd be absurdly dangerous, and the burden of the entire thing rests on the Thinkamancer's shoulders. If she fails, all the others fail with her.


    Edited because I somehow accidentally submitted this when only half-written the first time.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:37 am 
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    Jamini was responding to the idea that Isaac could have contributed his Lookamancy abilities while doing only a bilink with Ace, Selexor. It's not what conmor was talking about, but it is where the discussion went. xD

    I'm doubtful about four-way linkup. What could give that kind of power? Not Master-class, because we're looking at several and they certainly haven't contradicted the idea. Maybe a Thinkamancer attuned to the Dish, but that's not happening in this story.

    I don't think Charlie could do it with the Dish because he's always the "other person" in the Link, which suggests he can't apply any Thinkamancy expertise or Carnymancy to the Dish's own Thinkamancy while he relies on it to link him up with others.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:24 am 
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    Ah, silly me. I thought I'd followed where the thread went, but I didn't. Sorry, Jamini!

    As for a Four-Way Linkup... well, I think my reasoning is best done if I explain how I imagine a Thinkamancer works in a Linkup.

    From what we know, any spell being cast gets its power from three different aspects: The level of the Caster, the amount of Juice being spent, and the level of Focus (concentration, effort, skill, or whatever) being put into it. That's how individual skill can really come into play beyond just the numbers of a Level 12 Foolamancer using half his Juice to cast a veil - it's how hard he tries, how much he concentrates on making it really believable, that could make the same spell cast twice have very different results. Or if you like to think of it in game mechanics, you roll 1d20 for how effective any spell is, and at the end you add the bonuses from juice spent, caster level, and level of focus.
    The problem is that the Caster is an individual, and their mind is always going to be working at different things, because that's just how the mind works. In some part of their mind, they'll be thinking about that attractive Stabber they hooked up with last night, or that bottle of wine they stole from the larder, or the game of cards coming up later this turn. Or they'll be distracted by hunger, or thirst, or an itchy nose, or the urge to have a crap. Their focus is never at 100% because a living mind always has distractions.
    This is what a Thinkamancer specialises in, though - how the mind works, and how to make it work better. Once linked, they break down the Caster's mind into two stacks. One stack is "This Won't Help You Cast" and it's shut off for the duration of the link-up. No distractions, pure concentration on the spell. The other stack is "This Will Help You Cast" and is made available, set out for easy use. The Caster who's been linked up suddenly has a perspective on their discipline they didn't have before, new ways of looking at it, perhaps mental tools that they'd never considered helping them to cast before, like Sizemore learning the metaphor of Dirt as a Body.
    In short, it's mental Resource Management. The Thinkamancer's job when facilitating a linkup is to make things more efficient. It adds to the total level of the caster, it adds to the Juice pool available, and it means that with no distractions and greater perspective, the Caster is casting each spell at maximum efficiency and in more creative ways.

    That's how I think of a Bi-Link working. A Tri-Link requires doing it with two minds instead of just one, and keeping them in communication via a particularly complex two-way Thinkagram using the Thinkamancer's mind to connect them. It's a far more complex and difficult task, and it carries greater risk that the Thinkamancer might make a mistake and damage all three minds in the link. The more powerful and skilled a Thinkamancer is, the more likely they'll pull off the link with no negative consequences.

    A Bi-Link is a relatively easy and painless spell. A Tri-Link is an order of magnitude more difficult, and carries greater risks. So what I'm saying is that if my way of looking at how a Linkup works is anything close to accurate, a Quad-Link is theoretically possible, but would be a further order of magnitude more difficult than a Tri-Link. And there is no single Thinkamancer known who's capable of managing such a thing, so far as anyone knows. Saying that "Four can't even be done" is true given current circumstances, but I think it could be possible... if the Thinkamancer could handle the weight of four minds at once.

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