Forum    Members    Search    FAQ

Board index » Erfworld Things » Everything Else Erfworld




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 121 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:46 pm 
Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
Offline
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:06 am
Posts: 471
do golems auto repair

do golems have upkeep

what do golems do and shtuff

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:27 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4408
    Location: Morlock Wells
    Personally I don't think any magically created units have Upkeep, for a few reasons
    • It's heavily implied that uncroaked have no upkeep
    • Haffaton's extensive use of Flower Power units also suggests they might be free
    • You're already paying the Upkeep of the Caster that makes them, and that caster is expending the finite resource of Juice to do so, so Upkeep on the unit itself would be a double wammy
    Particularly because of that last reason, I also think it would stand to reason they do not recover lost hits at start of Turn, because Juice is what made them so Juice is required to restore them. Also because that is Natural Healomancy and they are not "alive". This would explain why Jetstone has only a modest number of Golems, and why they are rarely deployed far from Ace.

    Obviously all speculation, but there's my reasons (some meta, some comic-based) for thinking that way.

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:59 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm
    Posts: 686
    Hmm, uncroaked have only been implied to be upkeep free? I thought it had been stated outright. Though, some people might argue that they do take upkeep, in the form of deterioration.

    Still, I agree, golems have always seemed like upkeep free units, and while I hadn't really thought about the double upkeep thing for the caster, it is a very good point to add in there.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:21 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4408
    Location: Morlock Wells
    Decrypted have been stated explicitly as zero upkeep. I don't believe the same has been technically done for normal Uncroaked, but given Wanda's word choice when she said Decrypted are zero upkeep, the fact that Haffaton used them so much, and Stanley calling them "cheap to feed" as a joke, it's a safe conclusion to draw for them as well.

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:25 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:27 am
    Posts: 130
    I also don't think units created by magic require upkeep, and probably don't heal naturally either. Some powerful units might require a per turn maintenance cost in the form of juice. That would put a limit on the total number that can be in existence at one time for a given caster.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:30 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:51 pm
    Posts: 672
    Hmmm...wasn't there a comment in Digdoug's story regarding the golems potentially healing upon the start of Turn?

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:36 am 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:06 am
    Posts: 471
    lady doves upkeep was said to be 75 which seems ridiculously low for a caster. it might have been that she was low level or just a novice. it also might have been that it was after a prepared meal upkeep. i think that it might have been related to the amount of juice that she uses. like 75 is a base price and it might jump to 200 or more if she uses a considerable amount of juice. so if a caster makes golems the price of the unit would be included in the casters increased upkeep. i think that would be at least possible.

    it might be the cost is entirely in juice or materials or both. it might be that golems do have upkeep. it just would be incredibly unbalanced if you have a unit that can wipe out whole stacks by itself and the only price was that you have to spend a good bit of juice to make them. if it was that way then you would see sides trying to have tons of dirts and dolls and have them make a ton of golems. i recognize that this was what jetstone was doing with ace hardware, but i think that was just because they use golems to supplement their mass infantry armies.

    with the florist (olive) making tannenbaums and other flower power units is that the units can draw a "meal" directly from the ground and then you don't have to pay their full upkeep and you don't have to pay for food to feed them. if they are free then they have to have some drawback that makes them balanced. some probably act like traps and don't have an ability to move at all so they only have a specific circumstance of use.

    their shouldnt be a unit that is a heavy, that the weakest of them can take out leadership stacks just by self destructing, that doesn't have an upkeep, and generally can rampage through enemy lines an only be taken down when they have decimated a fair number of troops. it is just too op.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:14 am 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4408
    Location: Morlock Wells
    MAGIC is OP, period lol. Casters are rare, vulnerable, and "random". Anything they do is OP by comparison to the norm.

    Comparisons of upkeep though are irrelevant, because we honestly have no sense of scale. For all we know, Dove's 75 Upkeep may mean that a single schmucker pays the upkeep of an entire stabber stack. So trying to pass 75 off as a "low" number is just wild speculation.

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:08 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:52 pm
    Posts: 572
    0beron wrote:
    MAGIC is OP, period lol. Casters are rare, vulnerable, and "random". Anything they do is OP by comparison to the norm.

    Comparisons of upkeep though are irrelevant, because we honestly have no sense of scale. For all we know, Dove's 75 Upkeep may mean that a single schmucker pays the upkeep of an entire stabber stack. So trying to pass 75 off as a "low" number is just wild speculation.


    Wild speculation? Why that's a forum specialty!

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:37 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:51 pm
    Posts: 672
    Not to mention that arguing "golems can't have 0 upkeep because that'd be OP" is kind of ridiculous in the face of the Arkenpliers that can decrypt entire armies of normal units with their powers and leave those units with 0 upkeep.

    Golems, frankly, aren't any more or less powerful than any other use of caster juice over time. So, I have no trouble seeing them have 0 upkeep.

    And, suggesting that caster upkeep varies dependent on juice use seems highly unlikely, since we've had at least a few casters state their upkeep as a single number without any suggestion of upkeep inflating from usage. (Not to mention that caster upkeep numbers would be pretty meaningless if they were only a base number and you then had to pay for spells in shmuckers as well as juice.) Instead, upkeep seems to increase with level.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:45 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:10 pm
    Posts: 222
    Godzfirefly wrote:
    Not to mention that arguing "golems can't have 0 upkeep because that'd be OP" is kind of ridiculous in the face of the Arkenpliers that can decrypt entire armies of normal units with their powers and leave those units with 0 upkeep.

    Golems, frankly, aren't any more or less powerful than any other use of caster juice over time. So, I have no trouble seeing them have 0 upkeep.

    And, suggesting that caster upkeep varies dependent on juice use seems highly unlikely, since we've had at least a few casters state their upkeep as a single number without any suggestion of upkeep inflating from usage. (Not to mention that caster upkeep numbers would be pretty meaningless if they were only a base number and you then had to pay for spells in shmuckers as well as juice.) Instead, upkeep seems to increase with level.


    Yeah but the Decrypted units are created by an Arkentool. They are supposed to be mechanically overpowered.

    I remember that the 3 Judy golems had an upkeep, which had an increased upkeep because of the Thinkmancy magic.

    Maybe it should be that different caster disciplines have different upkeeps (Dirtamancy a loved discipline gets an expensive upkeep while carnymancers get a cheaper upkeep because they are traditionally hated). Or it's just random.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:52 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4408
    Location: Morlock Wells
    Judy's Golems were an exception, not the rule. The fact that they had "the upkeep of a Warlord" was noteworthy and unusual.
    Book 0, 56

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:00 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:10 pm
    Posts: 222
    0beron wrote:
    Judy's Golems were an exception, not the rule. The fact that they had "the upkeep of a Warlord" was noteworthy and unusual.
    Book 0, 56


    Judy golem were an example, what I was speculating was that the thinkamancy effect just increased their upkeep.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:07 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:51 pm
    Posts: 672
    Ashendant wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Judy's Golems were an exception, not the rule. The fact that they had "the upkeep of a Warlord" was noteworthy and unusual.
    Book 0, 56


    Judy golem were an example, what I was speculating was that the thinkamancy effect just increased their upkeep.

    Certainly giving the golems an upkeep was part of the effect of giving them the appearance of life. But, it's really not an example of a golem having an upkeep once they have life. It's an example of a living unit having an upkeep, which we have plenty of examples of.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:09 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4408
    Location: Morlock Wells
    Ashendant wrote:
    Judy golem were an example, what I was speculating was that the thinkamancy effect just increased their upkeep.
    It's possible. Nothing in there suggests that they would have had any upkeep normally. So it's equally possible that either they normally have low upkeeps and Thinkamancy increased it, or that they normally have no upkeep and Thinkamancy gave them one.
    However, reading between the lines, I suspect from that update that they have zero upkeep normally. Because they serve no purpose except to give Judy some tiny measure of happiness via nostalgia now. So given how strapped Haffaton is for cash, and how much Olive wants Judy to remain weak, I think that if they cost even a single schmucker in upkeep, Olive would have had them disbanded/destroyed, using the same cost excuse that she used to stop more form being made.

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:14 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:10 pm
    Posts: 222
    0beron wrote:
    Ashendant wrote:
    Judy golem were an example, what I was speculating was that the thinkamancy effect just increased their upkeep.
    It's possible. Nothing in there suggests that they would have had any upkeep normally. So it's equally possible that either they normally have low upkeeps and Thinkamancy increased it, or that they normally have no upkeep and Thinkamancy gave them one.
    However, reading between the lines, I suspect from that update that they have zero upkeep normally. Because they serve no purpose except to give Judy some tiny measure of happiness via nostalgia now. So given how strapped Haffaton is for cash, and how much Olive wants Judy to remain weak, I think that if they cost even a single schmucker in upkeep, Olive would have had them disbanded/destroyed, using the same cost excuse that she used to stop more form being made.


    Except that was still Judy's decision not Olive.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:17 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4408
    Location: Morlock Wells
    Ashendant wrote:
    Except that was still Judy's decision not Olive.
    Olive put a stop to more being made in the first place, so clearly she has her ways. And even if she couldn't do it herself (the spell that costs no Juice, or some kind of Heir power) we know the CWL also has that authority so she could easily manipulate whoever that was.

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:20 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:51 pm
    Posts: 672
    I think it's been made pretty clear that Chief Warlords and Heirs can have quite a bit of power in their side on their own. Unless Judy specifically ordered the Scarecrow to be left alone (which she might have) Olive probably would have had the power to disband them. She certainly was making all the other management decisions in the side.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:36 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:10 pm
    Posts: 222
    0beron wrote:
    Olive put a stop to more being made in the first place, so clearly she has her ways. And even if she couldn't do it herself (the spell that costs no Juice, or some kind of Heir power) we know the CWL also has that authority so she could easily manipulate whoever that was.


    She put a stop to it by making an argument against it.

    Godzfirefly wrote:
    I think it's been made pretty clear that Chief Warlords and Heirs can have quite a bit of power in their side on their own. Unless Judy specifically ordered the Scarecrow to be left alone (which she might have) Olive probably would have had the power to disband them. She certainly was making all the other management decisions in the side.


    I don't think anybody else has the power to disband or pop units besides the rulers, at best a Chief Warlord might've been able to order the Ruler to do so, but so far they don't seem to be able do so without the ruler. (Do chief caster have the same ability to order rulers as Chief Warlords do?)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:48 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:51 pm
    Posts: 672
    Ashendant wrote:
    I don't think anybody else has the power to disband or pop units besides the rulers, at best a Chief Warlord might've been able to order the Ruler to do so, but so far they don't seem to be able do so without the ruler. (Do chief caster have the same ability to order rulers as Chief Warlords do?)

    Didn't Ossimer make the decisions about what popped in Jetstone's cities while he was Chief Warlord? And, while we haven't seen actual disbandment by a Chief Warlord, we have seen (in the Thinkamancer profiles) a Chief Warlord dismiss a caster into the Magic Kingdom as a barbarian in spite of the Ruler's wishes. So, the Chief Warlord is clearly very powerful as a commander.

    As for if a Chief Caster has the same authorities...that is unclear. But, there doesn't seem to have been another Chief Warlord in Haffaton, so Olive might have played both parts somehow.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
    Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     
    Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 121 posts ] 

    Board index » Erfworld Things » Everything Else Erfworld


    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Twofer and 3 guests

     
     

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum

    Search for:
    Jump to: