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 Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:45 am 
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This is a thread for posting your own homebrew rules for Erfworld-themed games that can be played with one or more decks of ordinary playing cards, such as 5-Stack Air War and Dove's Carnymancy game.

We're going to have a fan event at GenCon Indy this year to test out sets of rules, in preparation for possibly publishing a rulebook and printing some decks of Erfworld themed playing cards. Please post your rules to this thread, so we can get initial feedback on them and decide which ones to test out in August. If your rules are ultimately selected for the rulebook, then you will receive a byline and bio in the rulebook, copies of the card sets, and other Erfly rewards.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 12:19 pm 
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    Dittomancers’ Duel
    Like Air War, this game may be played when players are separated because no exchange of cards is required. Each player has their own full deck, with no limit to the number of players involved.

    Players draw 10 cards, and a randomly determined first player choses one and displays it, then discards it, removing it from play and drawing a replacement card. The next player must chose and display a card that matches either the suit or value of that card, then similarly discards and draws a replacement. Play repeats in this manner for every player. If a player is unable to play a matching card, their turn is skipped and they may not draw a new card that turn. The winner is the first player to exhaust their deck and hand.

    In the event a player displays a card exactly matching the preceding card, they draw an extra card at the end of their turn.

    Joker: Players may agree to remove Jokers from all decks, or leave them in as wild cards, prior to the start of play.

    Optional Repeating Rule
    For a longer and more challenging games, players may adopt this alternative rule. Cards played are placed on the bottom of a player's deck rather than discarded. When a player is unable to play a matching card, not only do they fail to draw, but must also discard a card, removing it from play. Any players who exhaust either their hand or deck are removed from the game, and the winner is the final player remaining.

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    Last edited by 0beron on Thu May 22, 2014 1:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 12:52 pm 
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    How ordinary is ordinary? Just the standard 52 card poker deck? Including jokers? What about Pinochle or Tarot decks, both are pretty easy to get a hold of in the US?

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:37 pm 
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    Bounty wrote:
    How ordinary is ordinary? Just the standard 52 card poker deck? Including jokers? What about Pinochle or Tarot decks, both are pretty easy to get a hold of in the US?


    Whatever comes in a regular deck of Bicycle poker cards, because that's what we bought for playtesting.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:53 pm 
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    Website: http://anastenazontas.blogspot.fr/2012/03/casino-surnatural.html
    I have created a separate thread for this game in order for the discussion not to clutter the discussion of the other games in this thread, so if you want you can check a playthrough (in progress) of this beta version of Titan's sign, check here: http://www.erfworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6855&p=113683#p113683 Takei no Yuurei, Oberon, Godzfirefly, Silversought and wreeee, thank you for your coments and vigilence on the rules.


    Titan's Sign

    This game requires a 52 cards deck, a piece of paper to write your rule, and a method of tracking score (could be dices, poker chips, or just jotting point down on a piece of paper).

    All players start with 0 points. The first one to 113 points or more at the end of a round of the game, wins the game, but that threshold can vary from playgroup to playgroup. If two or more players have a score equal or greater than the threshold, the one with the most points wins. In the case where they have the same amount of points, the last tied player who interpreted the signs (correctly or not) is the winner.
    The deck has no jokers, and the figure cards are considered to have a corresponding numerical value: Jake = 11, Queen =12, King = 13.

    A player is randomly selected to be the Titan. The others are the oracles trying to interpret his signs.
    The Titan writes on a piece of paper his rule. The rule can be up to twenty words long. The Titan announces how many words his rule consists of. He gets 20 - the number of words used points. This rule remains hidden until interpreted (guessed) correctly or there are no more cards in the deck to be revealed. The rule can be anything he likes that has a binary yes/no answer regarding the sequences revealed. Given the sequence of cards oppened at any given point, the rule should be verifiable for all valid and non-valid cards. Examples include (but are not limmited to):

    • Cards that have a bigger numerical value than the previous card played.
    • Cards that start with the letter F.
    • Red cards with a prime number.
    • Alternating female/male figures.
    • The first 3 cards in the deck.
    • Cards that have a higher value than the combined value of the last 2 cards.

    The Titan shuflles the deck.

    He then reveals the top card of the deck.

    The oracle whose turn it is can: pass, sacrifice to the Titan or try to interpret the signs (try to guess the rule).

    If he interprets the signs, he first has to say if the revealed card follows or not the rule. The Titan tells if he guessed correctly that it follows or doesn't follow the rule. If he guessed correctly, he gets 1 point and has to attempt to guess what the rule is. The Titan answers yes or no depending if he guessed his rule correctly or not.

    • If he guessed the rule correctly, the oracle wins. He scores one point per card remaining in the deck, he becomes the Titan and the current round of the game is over.
    • If he interprets wrongly, the Titan gains one point.
    • If he chose to sacrifice, he can give (2 + the number of wods already revealed by the Titan) of his points to the Titan, and make the Titan to reveal to all oracles a word of his rule. The oracle chooses which word he will reveal. For example, the Titan might have alread revealed 3 words: the 6th word which is "prime", the 10th word which is "red" and the 12th word that is "unless". The oracle sacrifices 5 of his points, loosing them and allowing the Titan to gain them, and making the Titan reveal his 3rd word (the oracle could have chosen any of the unrevealed words).
    • If he chose to pass, all other oracles gain one point.

    After each pass or unccorect guess, the Titan reveals the next card of his deck and the next oracle has the choise to interpret, sacrifice to the god or pass.

    A correct interpretation corresponds to having guessed the rule or any completely equivalent rule. For example: all the primes is equivalent to guessing all the 2s, 3s, 5s, 7s, Jakes and Kings.

    The Titan cannot give any non yes/no hints to the players apart from when he reveals a word of his law. If he does or if the last card is revealed and the oracles have not deciphered the signs correctly (guessed the rule):

    The player with the least points becomes the new Titan. In case of a tie, the old Titan chooses who, between the tied players will become the new Titan.

    Then, the old Titan and the new Titan exchange scores and he becomes an oracle, unless he remains the Titan since he was the player with the least points. The round is over, we check the new scores to see if there is a winner and, if not, the new Titan sets his rule.


    Last edited by Anastenazontas on Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:11 am, edited 12 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:13 pm 
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    Luckamancer's War

    This game is a modification of the well known game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_(card_game)

    The difference is that during any particular battle, the loser (and only the loser) may increase the value of their card by X, where X is the difference between their card and the opponent’s card, +1. This even allows an Ace to be defeated (by an Ace+1.) Causing them to win that battle.
    However, on the next battle, the user of this ability must subtract X from the value of their card before comparing. If this brings the value of their card below 2, they lose the entire game. If they do not lose the game at this point, the game continues as normal, including the ability to again increase the value of the lower card by X.

    Clarifications
    Only the original loser may increase their card’s value by X. Even though the other player is now the loser, they are not given the option of winning.
    In case of a Tie (a War) neither side is considered the “loser”, and thus neither side may modify their card’s value.
    If a War occurs (both cards revealed in any battle, including during a War, are tied) then exactly 3 prize cards are played out face down, and then another battle occurs to win all the cards on the table. Should any player be unable to play any of those required cards, they lose immediately.

    Variants
    Luckamancer’s Blitz: Instead of capturing defeated cards, the defeated cards are removed from the game, and only the winning cards are sent to the bottom of their owner’s decks.
    Luckamancer’s Warlord: Instead of simply flipping the top card of the deck for each battle, each player draws the top two cards of their deck, and selects one to play and one to send to the bottom of their deck. Both players reveal their chosen card simultaneously. Some groups will play with 3 or even more cards in a hand, but 2 is considered the standard.

    History
    Standard Luckamancer’s War was created as a teaching tool for low level Luckamancers to practice the critical art of discerning the most efficient applications of their magic.
    Luckamancer’s Blitz is commonly played as a quick game amongst Casters, meant to kill time rather than educate.
    As the strategic elements of it caught on, especially among warlords who’s side have a Luckamancer, the Luckamancer’s Warlord variant was created, to produce a game that was more strategic from what was once a learning tool.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:24 pm 
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    Are we only allowed to submit one game per person?

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:31 pm 
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    Iminyourdirtz wrote:
    Titan's Sign

    All players start with 0 points. The first one to 113 points over many runs of the game, wins the game.

    A player is randomly selected to be the Titan. The others are the oracles trying to interpret his signs. He writes on a piece of paper his rule. The rule can be anything he likes that has a binary yes/no answer regarding the numbers and/or suits of cards in the deck. Examples include:

    • Cards that have a bigger numerical value than the previous card played.
    • Cards that start with the letter T.
    • Red cards with a prime number.
    • Alternating female/male characters.
    • Cards revealed with my left hand.
    • The first 3 cards in the deck.

    The Titan shuflles the deck and reveals cards from the top of the deck. Each oracle in turn can pass, or try to interpret the signs (try to guess the rule). If he interprets the signs correctly, he wins one point per card remaining in the deck, the current run of the game is over and he becomes the Titan. If he interprets wrongly, the Titan gains one point. If he passes, all other oracles gain a point. In these last two cases the Titan reveals the next card of his deck.

    If the last card is revealed and the oracles have not deciphered the signs correctly, that run of the game is over, and the oracle with the least points becomes the new Titan. The old Titan's score is set to 0.

    I think you forgot to include the part where the Titan gives any kind of feedback that could indicate what the rule is. Also, I would suggest some sort of penalty for incorrect guesses, to prevent oracles simply guessing every turn on the hope that they'll randomly get it correct.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:44 pm 
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    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    I think you forgot to include the part where the Titan gives any kind of feedback that could indicate what the rule is. Also, I would suggest some sort of penalty for incorrect guesses, to prevent oracles simply guessing every turn on the hope that they'll randomly get it correct.


    Thank you for the catch about the Titan not being able to give feedback to indicate the rule, Taikei. I updated my post to reflect that.

    As far as the penalty to incorrect guesses is that you give a point to the TItan. If you do not try to guess you give points to all the other oracles, while if you get it correctly, the earlier you do it, the more points you get since you count the cards remaining in the deck. I guess I need to playtest it some times with one or two people, and see if I need to adjust the numbers, but I feel the rules are balanced like this.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:46 pm 
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    Iminyourdirtz wrote:
    Titan's Sign
    Ummmm, this game still doesn't make any sense, I think you misunderstood Taikei's feedback. When the Titan reveals a card, he should say "Yes" (meaning the revealed card fits within his defined rule) or "No" meaning it does not. As you currently have it written, players would simply be guessing randomly based on no information, and it's not really a game at all in that case.

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    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:48 pm 
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    Iminyourdirtz wrote:
    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    I think you forgot to include the part where the Titan gives any kind of feedback that could indicate what the rule is. Also, I would suggest some sort of penalty for incorrect guesses, to prevent oracles simply guessing every turn on the hope that they'll randomly get it correct.


    Thank you for the catch about the Titan not being able to give feedback to indicate the rule, Taikei. I updated my post to reflect that.

    As far as the penalty to incorrect guesses is that you give a point to the TItan. If you do not try to guess you give points to all the other oracles, while if you get it correctly, the earlier you do it, the more points you get since you count the cards remaining in the deck. I guess I need to playtest it some times with one or two people, and see if I need to adjust the numbers, but I feel the rules are balanced like this.

    I don't get it. How can anyone guess a pattern from a shuffled deck with no hints?

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:48 pm 
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    Ah wait I forgot a crapton of information. I had it in my head. I will clarify. So sorry. Thank you for your vigilance. I hope it makes more sense now. I am very sleepy, so I will be off, but if the game still makes no sense, please tell me and I will try to fix it tomorow and give a small example of play.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 9:14 pm 
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    Iminyourdirtz wrote:
    Ah wait I forgot a crapton of information. I had it in my head. I will clarify. So sorry. Thank you for your vigilance. I hope it makes more sense now. I am very sleepy, so I will be off, but if the game still makes no sense, please tell me and I will try to fix it tomorow and give a small example of play.

    Yeah, I kinda figured that you had left that part out by mistake, as it seemed like the way it would be played. Sounds like a decent ruleset. Only real problem I see with it is that the Titan could easily make a rule that is impossible to discover. "Only every third card I reveal with my left hand, but only if the previous card was with my right hand and an odd number." And that isn't even really on the impossible side. It does seem like a fun game, but only if Titans play with relatively simple rules.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 9:16 pm 
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    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    Iminyourdirtz wrote:
    Ah wait I forgot a crapton of information. I had it in my head. I will clarify. So sorry. Thank you for your vigilance. I hope it makes more sense now. I am very sleepy, so I will be off, but if the game still makes no sense, please tell me and I will try to fix it tomorow and give a small example of play.

    Yeah, I kinda figured that you had left that part out by mistake, as it seemed like the way it would be played. Sounds like a decent ruleset. Only real problem I see with it is that the Titan could easily make a rule that is impossible to discover. "Only every third card I reveal with my left hand, but only if the previous card was with my right hand and an odd number." And that isn't even really on the impossible side. It does seem like a fun game, but only if Titans play with relatively simple rules.

    Titans have a motivation to create rules that aren't totally unguessable, since they lose all their points if nobody guesses it.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 9:18 pm 
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    Silversought wrote:
    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    Iminyourdirtz wrote:
    Ah wait I forgot a crapton of information. I had it in my head. I will clarify. So sorry. Thank you for your vigilance. I hope it makes more sense now. I am very sleepy, so I will be off, but if the game still makes no sense, please tell me and I will try to fix it tomorow and give a small example of play.

    Yeah, I kinda figured that you had left that part out by mistake, as it seemed like the way it would be played. Sounds like a decent ruleset. Only real problem I see with it is that the Titan could easily make a rule that is impossible to discover. "Only every third card I reveal with my left hand, but only if the previous card was with my right hand and an odd number." And that isn't even really on the impossible side. It does seem like a fun game, but only if Titans play with relatively simple rules.

    Titans have a motivation to create rules that aren't totally unguessable, since they lose all their points if nobody guesses it.

    Oh, missed that rule. Never mind. Of course, that creates incentive for oracles to not bother making 'real' guesses on the last few cards, since they'd only get a couple points and the Titan would get to keep their score.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 9:36 pm 
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    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    Oh, missed that rule. Never mind. Of course, that creates incentive for oracles to not bother making 'real' guesses on the last few cards, since they'd only get a couple points and the Titan would get to keep their score.

    At that point though, successful guesses are easier. Can you afford to let another oracle take the win? Unless the oracles collude, I think it's unlikely that they'll call it quits and let the Titan lose out completely.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 10:44 pm 
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    Kent

    This is a real game known as Kent, sometimes known as Kemps. I'm not sure if that falls outside of the rules for this thread, but it's an ancient game (so no owner/inventor/copyright holder), feels Erfworld-y and everything in this post is my original writing. It's also great fun - it basically does to poker what Bananagrams does to Scrabble.

    This game is played with four players split into two even teams, seated in a way so that no player can easily interact physically with their partner beneath the table. Before the game begins, the teams each go off on their own and come up with a secret code.

    When play begins, the deck is shuffled and four cards are dealt out face down to each player, with an additional four placed in the middle of the table. The deck is then placed off to the side and each player is allowed to look at their cards. After a three-second countdown, each player flips over one card (the ones lying in the middle of the table) and the game begins.

    The object of the game is to obtain four cards of the same kind. To pick up a card from the table, players must first put down a card from their hand. At no point should any player have more than four cards in their hand. There are no turns or any sort of natural order, just a free-for-all on the table as everyone tries to collect cards. After everyone is done taking cards (decided by consensus among the players) the four cards left on the table are declared "croaked" and swept into a pile on the opposite side of the table from the deck, and four more cards are placed face down on the table. The round then repeats.

    When a player completes their hand, they must get their partner to yell "Kent". However, if a player on the other team believes that a competitor has four of a kind, they can call "Stop," and, if their guess is correct, win the game. Because of this, partners typically instead use their secret codes to try and signal to their partner that they have four of a kind.

    Games can be ended in one of four ways:
    1. A player calls "Kent" when their partner has four of a kind - Their team gets a point
    2. A player calls "Kent" when their partner does NOT have four of a kind - Their team loses a point
    3. A player calls "Stop" when either of their competitors have four of a kind - The team of the player who called "Stop" gains a point
    4. A player calls "Stop" when NEITHER of their competitors have four of a kind - The team of the player who called "Stop" loses a point

    Players keep playing games until one of three things happens:
    1. The players have played a pre-determined number of games
    2. One team has earned a pre-determined number of points
    3. The players decide they've had enough fun for now and amicably agree to stop playing

    In all cases, the team with the highest score wins.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:06 pm 
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    Iminyourdirtz wrote:
    The old Titan's score is set to 0 and he becomes an oracle.

    This is really weird. So, if none can guess rules, then two oracles with least points will be alternating in the Titan role, and having no chance to win.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:14 pm 
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    wreeee wrote:
    Iminyourdirtz wrote:
    The old Titan's score is set to 0 and he becomes an oracle.

    This is really weird. So, if none can guess rules, then two oracles with least points will be alternating in the Titan role, and having no chance to win.

    If nobody can guess the rules, then nobody wins, since there will be no players who have above 0 points. That's why the game is about making simple rules a little bit tricky, not having an elusive and unintuitive rule. xD

    I suspect the reason the person with least points becomes the Titan is because if the Oracle with the most points became the Titan, the Oracles would probably just suicide-pass so that his points would drop to nil and they'd gain a big advantage.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:45 pm 
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    It should really be that the titan doesn't get any points for the turn, as opposed to losing all their points. Otherwise the game will be virtually impossible to win, because whenever someone gets close to the needed points (which will virtually require them winning and thus becoming Titan) the other players will just refuse to correctly guess the rule to reset their score to zero. After all, if no one guesses the rule, the Titan doesn't get to keep any of the points, so there is no penalty for intentionally guessing wrong if you know no one is going to let the Titan win.

    I think all the response from people shows the concept is very interesting and fun, but the details need some hammering out. Right now I feel like every round is going to be the oracles desperately trying to figure out the rule for the first 20ish cards with a ton of guesses, but then when the titan has 40 points or so after 20-30 cards, oracles will decide the 20 or so points they'll get for guessing it right isn't worth all the points the titan will get. I could be wrong of course, and my exact numbers could be off, but in every game, there will be a point where the Titan has so many points from wrong guesses, that the players just won't want to get the rule right because it'll give the Titan more points than it'll give them.

    One solution would be that you'd have a set player as the Titan, sort of like a GM, but then it is harder to give the Titan motivation, so doesn't really work so well.

    I don't know, I really want this to work out, because it sounds so fun, but the scoring system just feels a bit untenable right now.

    P.S.
    Lots of other cool suggestions, don't mean to be ignoring everyone else, but I really love the riddle/puzzle aspect of the Titan game.

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