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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:08 pm 
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I agree with an earlier point that any combination of casters could be worked into a good strategy by a good Ruler. And I'd say strategy is also highly dependent on the normal types of units my side produces as well as the terrain/neighbors.

If I had my druthers, I would be in some sort of valley location. Not necessarily as isolated at FAQ, but some form of natural terrain barrier that limits access to a handful of points. Then, there is of course the order of the casters to consider.

First, I'd want my Chief Rhyme-o-mancer. Jillian said that young Rulers have to take risks and trust the Titans to preserve them, so I imagine a Rhyme-o-mancer could capitalize on that dramatic tension and weave a tale of a Side beating the odds and thriving against adversity. There are 2 other reasons for wanting this one first though. One, out of all the casters I'm planning on, this is the one who I want to become a Master in her whole school, so making her the oldest caster means she's most likely to get there. Two, I want her to remain my Chief, so in order to prevent friction between casters, I'll make sure she's also the highest level.

Next comes the Florist. Combining gardens with magical units like Tannebaums will keep my upkeep low, plus the ability to prevent combat, even on a small scale, will help me defend myself. Much later, dabbling in Sign and Dateamancies even just enough to pick up their caster senses would make him a good utility unit.

Third would be my Dirtamancer. He would focus first on improving my cities so I can focus even more heavily on defense, and then also build defenses at the various choke-points leading into my territory. Working cooperatively with my Florist would likely yield more productive gardens as well. Dabbling in Changemancy would allow even better improvements to my cities.

Finally comes the Thinkamancer, and my side becomes complete. This final caster will play a crucial role and thus I expect she'd level up quickly to be on-par with the others.

With all my casters in place now, they work cooperatively in order to build an isolationist "bubble side" of mercenaries. The Chief Rhyme-o-mancer uses her songs and some Carnymancy to boost the other 3 in everything they do, and also teaches them Novice Rhyme-o-mancy so they can use metamagic more effectively on their own when she's not around. The team has several priorities:
Priority 1: Link the Dirt & Florist in order to make complex organic traps at the choke-points, rendering my territory virtually impenetrable.
Priority 2: Use the same link to make highly productive gardens, perhaps even create man-made Farm hexes.
Priority 3: Rhyme links up with Dirt and Florist respectively to basically provide hyper-metamagic. The presence of a Thinkamancer increases a caster's focus, and using Rhyme-o-mancy in a spell makes it more powerful. Ergo; Dirtamancer and Florist get on the fast-track to Master Class in each of their primary disciplines.

The goal from there on out is to maintain a lean side that operates on low upkeep thanks to bountiful gardens, and roads built between my cities allow quick troop redeployment to defend the chokepoints around the valley. Using my Thinkamancer, I dedicate any surplus troops to mercenary work, often accompanied by the Dirtamancer as necessary.
Essentially I'd want other sides to look at me and think "he never attacks or causes trouble, he sells mercenary services for a fair price, and that valley is way too heavily fortified to be worth attacking"

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     Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:22 pm 
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    CarniDollMancer wrote:
    youngstormlord wrote:
    Now, if a florist makes poison and coats an arrow with it and an unstacked archer shoots it and the unit doesn't croak from arrow but from poison, does Florist get exp or does archer get it?

    Yes. The Florist gets experience for creating the poisons (casting grants XP). They might get something for the kill, but we have no idea. The archer would get some experience because he was in the fight and his volley hit a dude (why does it matter the archer is unstacked?). He might get more for the kill, but we have no idea. I'm inclined to believe credit would go to the Florist unless it was specifically the archer's idea to poison his arrow without suggestion (with a Warlord present, he may get the experience for being competent enough to give the 'poison the arrow' order. We know WL's get experience for leading a victorious engagement).

    This is a great question though.


    Yeah, I meant unstacked with Florist. Didn't want to complicate matter further with leadership and warlords. I'm pretty certain Olive got experience from poison. She poisoned Wanda's brother Tommy and was in a different hex when he croaked.

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     Post Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:08 pm 
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    I'd imagine my side to have something like griffons or the like, high move flyer, and to have a mountainous/hilly terrain. The basic strategy would involve using infantry to secure passages and roads to nail invaders in place or to bait them out, so that my air cavalry can sweep in and hit hard. Cities would be dealt with in a similar manner, strike hard with air cavalry bait the city with cheap defenses and then nail what ever retakes it with an ambush. Raze the city and ransom any warlords.

    A Thinkamancer will always be invaluable for the ability to coordinate the side and create link-ups even two-caster link ups are worthwhile as Maggie and Sizemore showed. The main use of my Thinkamancer would be in coordinating my air cavalry and compiling intelligence from across the side so that the flyers could strike where they need to and with enough force.

    A Dirtmancers will be helpful for creating those cheap defenses as I could raze captured cities down to level 1 or 2, letting the dirtmancer shore of the defenses so I can make it even more costly to retake making my counter strike to capture leadership all that much more effective. In the meantime I can have the dirtmancer improve the defenses of my main city and more importantly improve my farms/mines and shmucker revenue

    A Shockmancers will be useful for the same reason as a Dirtmancer, making my front line cities more costly to take and weakening anyone foolish enough to take the bait. In the meantime while my dirtmancer works on my farms and mines the Shockmancer can reinforce my dominance of the skies by shoring up my anti-air capabilities.

    Now after these two I am a little more undecided on what I want my final caster to be. Cheap defenses so I can raze cities and ransom warlords is probably going to contribute a good bit of extra shmuckers to my treasury, so I dont feel I am going to be hurting for Shmuckers especially if I mandate foraging among my troops (Which will provide free scouting to better direct my airforce). I could easily make use of any of caster to help shore this strategy up here or there but if I had a choice I'd choose...

    A Turnamancer mostly to speed production and provide vehicles for my troops to improve their mobility on my sides rough terrain. This would be especially nice to create air vehicles that can help balance out my air-force should the special units my side pops not contribute all to greatly to the air superiority I am pushing.

    Now Linkup wise, I'd probably turn my core cities into absolutely nightmares to take because of Think-Dirt, Think-Shock or Think-Dirt-Shock linkups could beef up my ground and air defenses enough to make these core special/warlord producing cities near impossible to take. I would also try making Think-Turn-Shock linkups to try and produce tanks and fighter planes for their obvious benefits. Get a real blitzkrieg going take a bunch of cities raze them, booby-trap them, pull out, wait for someone to retake them and while their still weak smash them again to take what ever leadership they used to recapture them. Finally I'd try making a Think-Turn-Dirt link up to possible create railroads/roads around my side to once again improve mobility and relieve my dependency on air superiority just in case someone ever decides to use that against me somehow. Might also see if I could permanently improve a city's ability to produce units with that last link up.

    This would be my preferred side: Rely on the wealth generated from aggressive raiding and ransoming to keep everyone happy and paid for. Use my casters to reinforce this strategy and in other cases cut down on my dependency on it. I could probably end up using any set if casters like say a math-luck-rhyme to accomplish something similar with precisely applied bonuses and calculated strikes.

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     Post Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:48 am 
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    youngstormlord wrote:
    CarniDollMancer wrote:
    youngstormlord wrote:
    Now, if a florist makes poison and coats an arrow with it and an unstacked archer shoots it and the unit doesn't croak from arrow but from poison, does Florist get exp or does archer get it?

    Yes. The Florist gets experience for creating the poisons (casting grants XP). They might get something for the kill, but we have no idea. The archer would get some experience because he was in the fight and his volley hit a dude (why does it matter the archer is unstacked?). He might get more for the kill, but we have no idea. I'm inclined to believe credit would go to the Florist unless it was specifically the archer's idea to poison his arrow without suggestion (with a Warlord present, he may get the experience for being competent enough to give the 'poison the arrow' order. We know WL's get experience for leading a victorious engagement).

    This is a great question though.


    Yeah, I meant unstacked with Florist. Didn't want to complicate matter further with leadership and warlords. I'm pretty certain Olive got experience from poison. She poisoned Wanda's brother Tommy and was in a different hex when he croaked.


    Think how it would work in a game.

    Poison food - make poison trap - possible EXP for creation and/or kills
    Poison kiss- poison attack - EXP for kills
    Poison arrow- enchant item - possible EXP for creation
    shoot poison arrow - poison attack - EXP for kills

    I would think only the archer gets the EXP for the kill

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     Post Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:55 am 
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    Carnymancer-make myself able to enter the MK and use scrolls.

    Turnmancer-get other people's mancers working for me. Slowly convert the MK casters to my cause one by one.

    Foolmancer-cover the tracks. Sees things better than a lookmancer. Can send messages that neither the thinkmancers nor Charlie can intercept.

    Dirtmancer-keeps the smuckers and rands flowing with mining and MK services. Great city defense boost. Can dig tunnels in the MK to create my secret base and retreat paths as needed, build up a golem army. If things go wrong, can cast earthquake for massive damage.

    Screw the usual engagement rules, I'm taking over the MK.

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     Post Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:13 am 
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    Thinkamancer, carnymancer, turnamancer.

    And then I just need to identify a few Sides that have no Thinkamancer to defend with but have a variety of other casters. (A hired Findamancer under contract can probably help here). Link my three casters; the Thinkamancer allows them to affect distant targets, the Carnymancer modifies the Turnamancer's abilities slightly, and the Turnamancer, instead of Turning enemy casters completely to my side, rather Turns them for the duration of a single spell. The Carnymancer also allows the target of the spell to be within range of the controlling link, rather than the caster.

    Effectively, this linkup is then able to cast any spell, from any discipline, as long as they can find a suitable Caster without Thinkamancy protection (so, everything except Retconjuration). (Thinkamancers, of course, will protect themselves, but I have a Thinkamancer to do any Thinkamancy I need, in any case) They can't cast often, and fail to provide the full tactical benefits of having the full suite of casters (for example, a real Dirtamancer would be able to provide advice about Dirtamancy unprompted) but they still have unparalleled versatility.

    At this point, additional casters merely increase how much casting my side can do, not what my side can cast.

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     Post Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:31 pm 
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    First I'll make some assumptions. My biggest one, that there is a reason thinkmancers don't rule the world. Tri-links are gamebreaking, but said to be potentially lethal. I'm going to presume that this is very true, that even the best tri-mancer link has a high chance of death, just because parson has multuple extremly high level thinkmancers available to negate this threat doesn't change the fact that it's normally quite dangerous.

    However, two person links are stated to be safe, so I'm going to stay open to this option...

    Second, my goals are a bit different then others. I'm a pacifist at heart, I prefer not to be croaking people and razing towns. Yes I know that's hard in Erfworld, and at some point I'll have to let stabbers do what stabbers do best, but I'm going to at least try to focus on avoiding conflict.

    Of course this would lend itself to a bubble kingdom idea, but we've heard enough bubble kingdom concepts so lets make things more interesting/hard for me by avoiding the standard rehashing of ideas and go with a theme for my kingdom. I already said I wanted a non-war loving side in a world that demands war, that seems unique enough to define a side as quite unique, so lets run with it. Lets go with all out hippy signmancy, make love not war man.


    Obviously were looking at a small kingdom with only a few well defended towns

    This of course means my non-desired classes are easy, any 'hot' class (one that needs to be near fighting) is out. No naughtmancers, probably no rhymancer either etc.


    Thus lets start with chief flower power hippymancer, in fact lets say they are also the ruler of my theoretical side. Hippymancy ability to make food makes upkeep cheap and easy, and can create good 'plant golem' style fighters (though pretty much half the classes can make some sort of golem). The Hippymancer can also nullify battles when needed.

    As the oldest she is most likely to master other specialties, but It feels cheating to presume all *my* casters get to master every other class, no reason I should get everything special. Instead lets say that she masters one other hippmancy area, one keeping with the signmancy of the side, she is also a signmancer.

    The sides main themes will be avoiding war through negotiation. She doesn't need her thinkmancer to help with with war Intel often, but she does use the thinkmancer to contact sides she needs to negotiate with often, and dual links help her to create strong contracts despite casting in her 'off' specialty and boost her gardens for food. She is well known as the go-to negotiator for her area and is often called on to negotiate, and then right the contract for, treaties between sides, she charges a small fee for her negotiation which helps to cover upkeep. As a caster she can travel to the magic kingdom which allows her to serve as mediator for any country by traveling to them through their portal. She is well known as the ultimate fair negotiator which earns her fame and some extra smuckers.

    This also means any side attacking her may upset many other sides that see her as a valued neutral party, just like a country deciding to raid the Red Crosses and steal their supplies would earn allot of hostility from everyone for violating an implied truce.

    I'm going to have to go with the obvious small-side option that others keep picking and have a dirtmancer for my next role. The dirtmancer traps the towns to death, so they are lethal to anyone that enters them. The hippymancer supports this because it's 100% defensive and designed to never have to use the traps, compare the traps to thorns on her rose...note to self create punny rose-related name for kingdom.

    When not trapping things my dirtmancer can of course create golems, though I suspect traps will be more juice efficent so golems won't be that common (they seem a more offensive varient). As an added bonus my dirtmancer enhances the flower power queens gardens by granting them extra fertile dirt to grow in(no need for a trimancer link to do this). The dirtmancer is also a popular role in the magic kingdom, and she will know this. When traps aren't needed he sometimes is sent to spend all his juice in the magic kingdom 'helping out'...and earning rands she can use to buy magical assistance when needed. It's well known that they have built up enough rands to buy the add of quite a few casters if needed, this is important later.

    For my final caster I'm torn. Thematically a healomancer seems the best fit for such a country, but their hard to fit into actual strategy. From a strategic standpoint I think a moneymancer is actually my best bet.

    The moneymancer can of course help me to get the most smuckers as possible out of my kingdom, which could allow me to have a larger standing army, but that's only part of it's advantage. If my queen is going to be negotiating she needs something to negotiate with, and gold speaks louder then words. The moneymancer is the one that helps her buy off the other sides as needed.

    Plus, lets say her kingdom has some at lest one town with mining, the dirtmancer can mine up some gems and moneymancer convert them at a great profit.

    With this setup she is able to defend herself pretty well, though the traps, cheap golems, and relatively large army compared to her small kingdom size (due to food gardens that all three casters can enhance drastically cutting down on upkeep). However, her main strategy is not just strong defense, but negotiations. She is charasmatic and focuses on negotiating treaties that defend her; and she isn't afraid to include "making love instead of war" as part of her negotiating strategies...if you know what I mean.

    She will offer money if needed to buy assistance from sides, but also food from her garden (to lower upkeep) or units (she is constantly popping units, but not using them in war. She wants to get rid of her excess units somehow so trading them to a side that will use them for some other benefit avoids paying upkeep while gaining some benefit from the units).

    Her negotiations focus first on a non-aggression pact, which isn't too hard to get since her well defended side is hardly worth attacking, it's more useful as a defensive wall to protect ones flank. She will then offer benefits like units, food, or very tiny smucker tithe for the other side to sign a contract promising to attack any side that attacks her side. Note this isn't a mutual defense pact, she is offering other resources to pay them to come to her defense without a promise to do the same for them.

    Because she is so well defended (meaning no one is likely to choose to attack her) her neighbors see signing such a defense treaty as low cost, since it's unlikely they will be called on to honor it, and besides she is a useful defensive barrier and thus worth helping to keep around. Thus neighboring sides are willing to sign for a relatively small payment from the queen. As more neighbors sign such pacts, further discouraging anyone from attacking her, it becomes increasingly easy to get *more* sides to sign similar pacts, since the odds of being called on to honor it decrease further with every signatory.

    Finally, she has a large collection of smuckers and rands she is slowly building up from her dirtmancer and other casters working in the magic kingdom. If anyone does attack her she advertises that she will higher mercenaries and casters (who may work cheap since she worked hard to earn their favor) for long enough to further boost her defense, would you want to attack a capital that may have half a dozen shockmancers suddenly show up to blast everyone in hex when you try?

    She prefers to pop units with natural specials that are useful out of combat, such as fabrication for trolls, so that they can do things when not fighting, or animals. I figured we could give her the slightest bit of date-o-mancy in the form of being able to get animals to trust her easier and loving animals herself, not useful tactically but enough to favor animals. Maybe give her side a rather unique particular high move low attack mount or scout animal that is considered quite valuable to other sides for non-combat strategic missions she can trade for smuckers or negotiation fodder that she likes to pop.

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     Post Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:54 am 
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    3-links are very dangerous, true, but that's only if you have 1 thinkamancer.

    I'll go a different route. Like the poster above, to keep things fair I'll only assume that 1 caster is an adept in a second discipline, not more.

    1)A second thinkamancer: 2 thinkamancers allow me to utilize 3-links with much risk. It also means that my communications are less likely to suffer from lack of juice, and it means that my other 2 casters can do more 2-links.
    2)Dirtamancer: There are 3 reasons I'm picking a dirtamancer. First, they're very strong for improving side's production. Second, dirtamancy traps are awesome. Third, they can earn lots of rands in MK.
    3)Moneymancer: Money = power. Also, my moneymancer will be the one who can cast in a second discipline, and his second discipline will be healomancy.

    This setup results in LOTS of money for the side. I would frequently utilize thinkamancy-dirtamancy and thinkamancy-moneymancy links to enhance the money making casters during peace time.

    Money and dirtamancer's rands will be used to buy scrolls and hire casters. With that much money and rands, I'll always hire a decent shockamancer to fill the towers of my best cities. I'll also hire other casters to participate in 3-links, though that'll only be done as a last resort because casters who accept such a dangerous request will require lots of money, also I'll probably have to hire a barbarian thinkamancer to help unravel the link to assure the other caster of their safety. Casters going to short-pier should be easier to convince, and those are usually the ones with a discipline that can turn the tide of a battle when in a 3-link.

    Moneymancer's healomancy will be used to cover for accidents(since I have them link-up frequently) and prevent important units from croaking. Sure, it can be handled with scrolls, but if my caster can do it, I'd rather spend the money somewhere else. Also, it allows me to use a dirtamancy-thinkamancy-healomancy link. Like, "healing the terrain", possibly restoring depleted natural resources.

    With 2 thinkamancers, at least one of them will be linked to the moneymancer in each turn they aren't doing something else, which would result in better financial management (further reduced upkeep, even higher income boost than what a moneymancer can normally do).

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     Post Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:57 am 
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    So apparently Word of God is that what units a side and cities pop is based on Natural Signamancy. More importantly the Ruler of a side can make individual cities on his or her side pop units that aren't on the standard rooster. The downside to doing that is that those units pop slower.

    So if unit types is determined by Signamancy and we know from Faq m.k.I that Signamancers can have an effect on the Signamancy of a city a highly interesting potential opens up.

    Could Signamancers help ease the restrictions on popping different units by reducing the pop time penalty by changing the signamancy of the city to better reflect the new units the Ruler wants it to pop?

    We know Dirtamancers can reduce the cost of upgrading a city just by being in it when it happens after all.

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     Post Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:59 am 
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    To expand on my response to you in the other thread, I personally think that Date-a-mancy and Carnymancy are the two more likely disciplines to remove or lower the penalty for popping outside of your pop list: Date-a-mancy controlling the relationship between the the city (which from Jed we know has something more to it than "just a city") and various others, and Carnys for breaking the rule that there's a penalty.

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     Post Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:42 pm 
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    wih wrote:
    To expand on my response to you in the other thread, I personally think that Date-a-mancy and Carnymancy are the two more likely disciplines to remove or lower the penalty for popping outside of your pop list: Date-a-mancy controlling the relationship between the the city (which from Jed we know has something more to it than "just a city") and various others, and Carnys for breaking the rule that there's a penalty.

    Carny rulebreaking seems pretty limited in what it can do in the long term. Jojo needed to cast on Sylvia every day for example and most Carnymancy spells are Break 1 Rule for 1 Unit for 1 Turn. It can be more but Carnymancy is pretty broken if there aren't limits on it. I think you would need a Trilink if you wanted to Carny an entire city to affect popping.

    Date-mancy doesn't seem like it has any connection to the types of units that a side can pop. However I could see them being used to affect the individual units that you pop. If the desires of the Ruler truly has an effect on what types of warlords and casters you get then a Date-Mancer might be able to enhance that bond between Ruler and side to make sure that the Ruler really gets what he or she wants. Want a Heavy Warlord? You get a Heavy Warlord? Have this totally awesome strategy that requires a Weirdomancer to pull off? Your next Warlord is a Weirdomancer instead. Etc.

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     Post Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:06 am 
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    We get a Thinkamancer for free eh? In that case...

    Turnamancer: Speeding up production is good, and i have a theory that a link could weave other disciplines into a Thinkagram, with Turnamancy that would mean a little "free action action" and also for communicating instantaneously by speeding up time relatively to make a Thinkagram conversation effectively happen in a moment as far as outside forces are concerned

    Florist/Signamancer: If i could get both then it would be perfect, Signamancy Turnamancy and Thinkamancy linked would allow me to bring powerful units into the side by calling them, then having the three casters work them over while time is stopped and convince them to either turn or sign a Turnamancy Signamancy Contract, Flower Power could be sped up with Turnamancy to greatly improve Farms and maybe even reach sustainability which is a huge boon.

    Rhyme-o-Mancer: Use Rhyme-o-mancy to power up the other casters and teach the Warlords to dancefight. Rhyme-o-Mancy and Flower Power can create a Chillaxe, allowing my casters to travel afield with impunity if needed, and Rhyme-o-Mancy could be used in and of itself to ease tensions and focus the other casters, plus he has the potential to learn Carnymancy as well, which further would allow my Thinkamancer and Turnamancer to abuse their linked abilities, among other potential possibilities.

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     Post Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:30 am 
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    My other setup would be

    Dirtamancer: Besides being rediculously versatile it also is able to change the Terrain Type if Croakatoa is to be believed, which can be INSANELY BROKEN if used well for instance with...

    Weirdomancer: Specials. Another versatile discipline but also by Linking with dirtamancy you could changge a Hex's specials. Need a Rainy Hex? How about creating a City or Capital site? You can literally sculpt the land to your needs, its crazy.

    Florist: Link with a dirtamancer to create Orchards and poisonous or plant traps, or artillery golems carrying pea shooters. Link with the weirdomancer to make plant units with specials, Flying Gumps, Water Capable Tanenbaums, etc. Meanwhile, boost the Orchards production to keep the upkeeps down and make costs cheaper

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     Post Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:04 pm 
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    My first two be a Lookamancer and a Mathamancer. Combined with the Thinkamancer, that would give me almost total battlefield awareness. These three may stay linked all the time, since the main danger in three-way links seems to be breaking them, rather than creating or maintaining them.

    My strategy would hinge on situating the bulk of my forces where they would be the most effective (mathematically speaking), while using an elite fast-strike force to take out any targets of opportunity. So my third caster would depend on whether I can pop flying mounts (or flying warlords).

    If I can't, then my third choice would be Weirdomancer. He would grant my elite force the mobility they need to get where the enemy's weak, while they're still weak. He could be useful in the battle itself, too, especially if he can remove enemy specials.

    If I can get my warlords airborne through other means, then I won't waste my last caster slot on a Weirdomancer. Instead, I'd get a Florist. The enemy is likely to learn pretty quick to concentrate their forces into only a few hexes, so the Florist is to help counter that strategy. Whether it's using peace powers to stall them or poison to kill them, either way it would be more effective when the enemy are all gathered in one place. Finally, a Florist would be useful during peacetime as well, to buff farm production.

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     Post Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:04 pm 
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    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    Hmm....my two plans:

    Rhyme-a-mancer, Thinkamancer, Dirtamancer, Shockamancer. This side would be about the power of Rock and that alone. Imagine a tower what's basically just a giant speaker, blowing out enough Rock to rock the very heavens themselves.

    My more thought through plan is Florist, Dirtamancer, Thinkamancer, Carnymancer. Play tall and defensive, using the Florist and Dirtamancer (often in 2-links) to shore up our cities and lower our overhead. Then, they both go into the magic kingdom, where those casters are well respected, and use their juice to earn as much good will and as many rands as possible. The Carnymancer is mostly there for lateral thinking (something I'm not the best at in the world), and for when we need to break rules for a big Dirtamancy or flower power trap. When the trap is set, pull the 3-link into the magic kingdom and cash in those rands for safe link breakage.

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