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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:05 am 
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What about Blair and Bell? They very well may have been Royal. They were both attuned, and they were both casters.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:43 am 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    MadZuri wrote:
    Do we have evidence that Blair, Bell, or Charlie aren't Royal?
    If Charlie were a king that would make Olive a queen, but she's called an Overlady. I haven't been able to find any place where Charlie is called Overlord, but I'm sure he's never called King either.


    Olive could have been popped outside the capital, in which case she wouldn't be royal. She would (probably?) be noble, but it's not clear that noble overladies get any special title.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:50 am 
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    drachefly wrote:
    Olive could have been popped outside the capital, in which case she wouldn't be royal.
    Can anyone remember where we learned that? I vaguely recall that something about that might have been mentioned in Artemis's history. Whatever the rules about that might be, it seems counter-intuitive that the king's daughter could be not a princess by some loophole.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:52 am 
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    Trammenis calls Charlie "Overlord" in Book 2, Page 40. That might not be definitive proof since Ansom just assumed Jillian was non-Royal.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:11 am 
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    Literally the next panel features Charlie telling Trem not to call him overlord.

    drachefly wrote:
    Olive could have been popped outside the capital, in which case she wouldn't be royal.
    Her being popped in the capital is the whole reason they think she is Charlies daughter.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:51 pm 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    drachefly wrote:
    Olive could have been popped outside the capital, in which case she wouldn't be royal.
    Can anyone remember where we learned that? I vaguely recall that something about that might have been mentioned in Artemis's history.


    As I remember it, we know from klogs that Royals can pop Nobles and Royals. From Jetstones history it appeared clear that more Royals were popped in a Royal capital, in effect non-capital popped commanders to a Royal side are Noble. Don't remember how clearly it was stated.

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    Whatever the rules about that might be, it seems counter-intuitive that the king's daughter could be not a princess by some loophole.


    I think the social convention is that only commanders popped in the capital are children of the ruler.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:11 pm 
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    Shai_hulud wrote:
    drachefly wrote:
    Olive could have been popped outside the capital, in which case she wouldn't be royal.
    Her being popped in the capital is the whole reason they think she is Charlies daughter.


    Good point. Withdrawn.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:51 pm 
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    But not every Commander popped in the capital is an "offspring" so there's something more to it than simple location.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:50 pm 
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    I did a bit of research/reading today and I think I've found an answer to some of the questions. When you decide to pop someone with leadership in the capital, the type depends on the number of turns it takes (err, vice versa). As far as I can tell, only royal side can pop courtiers (which fits the definition). That should be the tell tale sign to look for. The progression goes as follows: [edited]
    courtiers, warlord, family, heir
    In a royal side, family would by called prince and princess. On non-royal sides, they are called lord and lady.

    Also, royalty might lose their title if they turn to a different side. They keep their royalty if they spin off a new side. I don't think we have enough data to determine if Charlie and family were royal or not. That may be one of his best kept secrets. He doesn't want anyone to know about how he lost his first kingdom, or how he attuned, or how his own daughter poisoned him.

    Which reminds me. Powerful mage poisoned, dying and powerless? Become litch bent on world conquest. Sorry, got Xykon on the mind.


    Last edited by MadZuri on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:24 am 
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    Psst. you don't mean courtesans, you mean courtiers.

    And I really didn't get the impression that courtiers were a superclass of warlord - at least, not in the sense of 'better in every way'. They were seen as useless.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:11 am 
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    Weren't courtiers the ones that could do the task of managing cities like a Warlord, but without the combat aspects? Or am I misremembering? Assuming they're cheaper than popping/maintaining a Commander, there's a definite benefit to them.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:20 am 
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    I do believe you are both right, editing previous post.

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     Post Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:16 pm 
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    Back on Page 89 of the First Book Charlie identifies himself has Over Lord of Charlescom which would have made him an Over Lord when he Ruled from Ef-baum.

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:41 pm 
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    In Epilogue 7, Jack refers to her as Overlady Blair. If she was a non-royal, her sister probably was as well.

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