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 Post subject: Re: Arkentool
 Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Kaskah wrote:
I might as well throw my speculation in. I was wondering if the 4th unknown tool may have actually belonged to the predictmancer of faq, but the ball they are using doesn't look CGI to me. That could have been an Arkenstone....but now I don't think so. Oh well, just decided to mention in it in case I turned out to be right. :P

The fourth tool could still be linked to predictamancy though.



There's other instances of glowing orbs used as a light source in other pages.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F008.jpg

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:54 am 
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    Apparently, the root of "Arkenstone" was "eorcen-stán", old English (from the previously linked Wikipedia article). "Eorcen" meant "Precious", therefore Arkentools could mean Precious Tools- although I thought the comic says pretty clearly that they're named after the Titans of Ark.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:33 am 
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    privatepepper wrote:
    Apparently, the root of "Arkenstone" was "eorcen-stán", old English (from the previously linked Wikipedia article). "Eorcen" meant "Precious", therefore Arkentools could mean Precious Tools- although I thought the comic says pretty clearly that they're named after the Titans of Ark.

    *fondles Arkentool* It's mine! My own! My preciousssss!

    *cough* ...sorry. I really couldn't resist that. :oops:

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:26 pm 
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    A few points.

    One: Both Arkentools that have a very CLEAR association with a type of magic (Arkendish and Arkenpliers) are both two-Class magics on the Fate axis. (Thinkamancy is Life/Motion on the Fate axis, Croakamancy is Motion/Matter on the Fate axis).

    Two: The last two-Class magic on the Fate axis is Hippiemancy. Parson is (apparently) a Hippiemancer.

    Three: It has been proposed that Carneymancy is what the Arkenhammer is associated with. That would be the three-Class magic, on the Fate axis. I can buy the Carneymancy idea much better than I can the Changeamancy idea.

    The Arkentools are supposed to be all-powerful Artifacts. We know in canon that they are associated with Fate. It makes sense to me that they would affect multiple Classes as tools of the Titans.

    Let me go another route. What do you use pliers for? To hold onto inanimate objects, usually so they can be manipulated (pulled out or rotated). In other words, Motion and Matter. You have to bend it a bit for a satellite dish, but since energy isn't really a thing in Erfworld, we default back to catching and sending messages. Ie, Life and Motion. What do you use a hammer for? To pound the everloving crap out of whatever needs pounding. Life, Motion and Matter.

    The final tool? Life and Matter. I think a saw is out, because that has too much motion involved in it. A shovel is still possible, because it can be used for gardening or for mining, but I doubt it. Perhaps I'm just stretching this one. I don't have a guess here. But I think the theory presented above is fairly sound.

    -Tug

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:02 pm 
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    Housellama wrote:
    The final tool? Life and Matter. I think a saw is out, because that has too much motion involved in it. A shovel is still possible, because it can be used for gardening or for mining, but I doubt it. Perhaps I'm just stretching this one. I don't have a guess here. But I think the theory presented above is fairly sound.-Tug


    I speculate that the giant Flower we saw very early in the comic WAS an Arkentool, precisely because Hippies believe that "Life Matters." :roll:

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:22 pm 
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    It wasn't 3D/Rendered. It was 'just' a giant flower. All the Arkentools are out of place. They are real items edited into a cartoon world, intentionally.

    -Tug

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:16 am 
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    Housellama wrote:
    It wasn't 3D/Rendered. It was 'just' a giant flower. All the Arkentools are out of place. They are real items edited into a cartoon world, intentionally. -Tug


    Well, in that case, Parson's not a "living Arkentool," as was speculated. Even though he is a "real item" summon/edited into Erfworld.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:40 am 
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    BarGamer wrote:
    Well, in that case, Parson's not a "living Arkentool," as was speculated. Even though he is a "real item" summon/edited into Erfworld.

    Parson represents something much more powerful and dangerous than mere tools, however empowered. He represents new ideas, an entirely different way of thinking.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:44 am 
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    The Old Hack wrote:
    BarGamer wrote:
    Well, in that case, Parson's not a "living Arkentool," as was speculated. Even though he is a "real item" summon/edited into Erfworld.

    Parson represents something much more powerful and dangerous than mere tools, however empowered. He represents new ideas, an entirely different way of thinking.


    Perhaps this verges into Epileptic Tree territory, but it's interesting to note that the Tools are rendered differently, and Parson's eyes appear quite different. Is it just because he's from Erfworld? Maybe. Maybe not.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:25 am 
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    Well, it seems like the arkentools are all objects from Parson's word... I think it is fair to say that there is a good chance his watch is also a tool... but he has not yet attuned to it. Or maybe his mathmancy is a go-around to make him attuned to it early, but once he is attuned to it he gets some sort of awesome unit... like a new unit we have not yet seen (Electric golems or something like that).

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:39 pm 
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    Bob_the_tool wrote:
    I think it is fair to say that there is a good chance his watch is also a tool... but he has not yet attuned to it.


    His watch has been displayed in comic, and it isn't rendered.

    panel 5

    panel 11

    Ofc, maybe it is a tool, but it hasn't attuned to Erfworld yet :).

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:50 pm 
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    I think interpreting the arkentools as "things from the real world" is incorrect. Nothing in the "real world" was 3D rendered. The arkenpliers were rendered even when they weren't attuned. And the 4 known arkentools existed before Parson came to Erfworld. So, it is very unlikely that Parson, or his watch, or anything that came with him is an arkentool.

    Also, remember that just because something is ridiculously powerful or made by the titans is an arkentool. Artifacts are an entire category of objects in and of themselves that were made by the titans.

    ...And it just occurred to me: I don't think we've heard the actual origin of the arkentools. So far, we just know them as the great McGuffins of the comic.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:04 pm 
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    My problem with the term Macguffin is that the term has diverged to two meanings, and I'm definitely in favor of the first, original meaning:

    A driving force that the audience doesn't care about. The audience cares about the Arkentools, so they can't be a Macguffin. Alvin Maker's golden city on the other hand was a good example of a Macguffin. A character with the goal of becoming rich and famous, that's a macguffin. We really don't care if a protagonist becomes rich and famous, so long as there is a good story in the trying.

    "the main driving force behind a story." is the second definition of a Macguffin, which is kinda dumb since we already have a word for that--Plot.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 1:59 am 
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    The original definition of a McGuffin, as I recall it, depended less on the audience's interest in the object and more in its importance to the story at its beginning, compared to its importance at the end. A McGuffin is an object that instigates the action, after which the plot is driven by the characters interactions. A perfect McGuffin will, yes, thus be of little interest to the audience, but that is more of a side effect.

    In any case, I was using the term causally, because it was the quickest and clearest way to be understood. The arkentools are an imperfect McGuffin. They have utility outside of being the initial drive for the plot, but I do think their plot importance will fade as the comic becomes more driven by the motivations of the various characters.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:42 pm 
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    Well since i'm a goober i'll repost this
    Quote:
    About the future of the arkentools (if this has been kicked around before, my bad )

    The arkentool users will eventually be linked up (like the eyemancers), it will recreate erf and it will be epic.

    Charlie will do the linking, since the arkendish controls thinkamancy.
    The pliers will bring life into "new erf" since they control life/death.
    The hammer will bring nature, weather, or both into erf. Since the hammer shoots lightning (weather), and controls the (so far) only nonsentient arkenunit.
    The last one is a complete toss-up, but my money is on reshaping the landmasses and/or wiping out the old erf (via volcano maybe?)

    I know the comic states four casters in a link would be impossible, but the arkendish should be able to do it, no problemo.


    p.s.
    Sorry about makin' the new thread, my browser was being finnicky

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 4:08 am 
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    I'm pretty sure the fourth arkentool is a spinning wheel (based on the evidence).

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:48 am 
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    I have to mirror what others have said.

    I think that the Arkentools have no innate power themselves. I believe that is why its so important that they "attune". This process aligns the tool to its chosen user. Wanda is the easiest to see in that regard because she is a MAJOR croakamancer. But what about Stanley? He's just a pikeman right? Well...no....not assuming he DID become a leader through regicide. He also must have had a very powerful innate ability to control monsters in order to get the gobwins to serve his needs so well. Twolls too....can't forget those. Spidews...the list goes on. Stanley already HAD a very powerful ability to lead and dominate monster type units. The hammer just jacked that up, a ton. Giving him dwagons (which we are lead to believe are pretty much the end all be all monster unit) and the ability to use powers that the monsters he controls can use, such as flight and lightening and fire cones.

    Now, you may ask, "Then why did the pliers so specifically target undead before wanda had them?" I could theorize all day about that. Maybe they only did so due to whom was wielding it...and their close proximity to Wanda as a result. We are given no other examples of uncroaked units that Ansom has faced outside of Wandas...but we ARE told that they have fought many battles against Stanley and Wanda already. I would feel safe assuming that its likely Ansoms first real foe while having the pliers was Wanda (given that she tells us he became her focus immediately after realizing Stanley would not lose to Faq and that Ansom had them)...and her main force is uncroaked anyway. Perhaps upon coming that close to a unit they COULD attune to...the pliers began to attune in small ways to that magic.

    I'd assume, as well, that croakamancers have spells to straight END uncroaked units. It would come as no surprise that the pliers, after coming close to wanda and beginning to attune, would take on traits that worked with that magic. If it had been Sizemore that the Pliers attuned to first, I suspect Ansom would be smashing golems in a single blow. It all adds up for me, and it suggests that the artifacts are not naturally set into certain fields of magic...but take on the very traits of the ones they attune to. That answer, to me, is far more understandable and fitting for the story. My only deviance from that is the Arkendish...since it, thematically, could only really make sense as a projection device. Then again, maybe the items, upon the death or loss of their previous attunement, immediately pick a new target for attunement and change themselves to suit it.

    Perhaps the Dish may become an Arkenshovel...so to speak, should Charlie ever die. Perhaps they are only ever meant to attune once, and change based on the focus choices of their target. Perhaps they, much like Hamster, aren't a natural part of Erf, and follow whatever rules the "Dungeon Master" running this game chooses. It may very well be that this IS literally a game, and not just a messed up dimension, and there are literal players. It may be found one day that Parson merely perceives the game as an actual world, because of how he currently relates to it. Who knows?

    I do think that the tools themselves are merely amplifiers and extensions of the ones they attune to. So far as I've seen...it not only fits, but is constantly proven every time we read more.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:47 pm 
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    there is one other known one, but what about unknown ones? Perhaps some new characters in the next book will have them...

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:57 pm 
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    If dollamancy has anything to do with animating dolls like cloth golems, maybe the arkeneedle, for sewing cloth golems. Could create sentient cloth golems, graft cloth limbs onto living units, etc.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:15 pm 
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    kreszantas wrote:
    Sorry but this is flat out false. In Stanley's speech http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F032.jpg panel 6 specifically.

    Stanley has also shown himself to be an eratic, deluded boophole. plus one man saying there is holy and unholy doesnt mean there is. look at our own world, people claim that their religion is true and holy, but others say there is no holy influence on our world, that god doesnt exist. and considering how messed up stanley is, i dont really take his word for much.

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