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 Post subject: Arkentool
 Post Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 3:35 pm 
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This is an Arkentool speculation thread. It might be for the speculation I'm raising, or it might turn into a general spec. thread for speculation that won't last long, I don't know at the moment.

Anyway, the Arkenhammer pops/summons/controls dwagons, the Arkenpliers uncroak units to create Uncroaked and also seem to enhance Croakmancy, while the Arkendish seems to summon/pop/control the Archons and enhances Thinkmancy. However, the Arkenpliers can also destroy Uncroaked fairly easily. Does this mean the other Arkentools have similar properties? Will the Arkenhammer destroy dwagons? The Arkendish destroy Archons? (Bonus points if it fire lasers).

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 3:55 pm 
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    In line with that, maybe the Arkenhammer enhances Shockamancy or whatever that Lightning spell was that Stanley used in the Faq pass.

    The Arkendish looks pretty large, so maybe that huge flower we saw near the beginning of the Strip in the Magic Kingdom is also one? If so, maybe Hippymancy is associated with snakes! What about the other casting disciplines? Are they associated with Elves, Marbits, Gumps, Gobwins, Spidews, or any of the other units we've seen so far? Would Dollamancy's Arkentool be a giant sewing needle, and control the cloth bears we've seen?

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 6:09 pm 
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    I figured that the Arkenpliers' ability to disrupt uncroaked was just part of their general Croakamancy power. I would expect Croakamancers to be the best not only at creating uncroaked but also at destroying them. The pliers might potentially just be a great weapon generally, disrupting the life or unlife force of whatever they are used to strike.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 6:43 pm 
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    I'm more inclined to think that the ability of the arkenpliers to destroy uncroak is more because the arkentools are holy and less with the arkenpliers specifically.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 7:07 pm 
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    I don't think that the concept of holly has any meaning in Erf. The uncroaked units are just a product of magic, same as golems and other magically created units. At best the Arkenpliers perhaps work better on "summoned" units.

    But I'll go with the idea that Arkentools have an affinity for certain types of units hammer-dwagons, dish-archons, pliers-uncroaked, and so on.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 9:07 pm 
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    So far we've seen the arkentools having some kind of alignment to kinds of magic. To me it doesn't make sense that a powerful artifact would be limited to one specific subtype of magic like the pliers to croakamancy. The comic states that their are four known arkentools. Their are also 8 major magic groups. Maybe each tool is aligned to two of the major magic groups? Also their powers might vary based on the wielder. Wanda is a croakamancer so she creates uber undead. Charlie gets his rockin angels and empowered thinkamancy. Maybe if a lookamancer had attuned to the dish we would seem very different powers and units associated with it.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 9:13 pm 
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    This might be slightly off topic but i have a particular theory relating to the different arkentools that pertains more to the balance issue that keeps coming up.

    Arkendish=archons(?) and unparralled thinkamancy
    Akrenpliers=decrypted, instant uncroaked killer, pretty much unparralled croakamancy
    Arkenhammer=tames dwagons (can pop as well?) lightning attack/trick

    It seems to me like the arkendish and arkenpliers are more support weapons. They have no direct combat ability (besides the pliers being able to kill uncroaked) and are almost centered around giving their users passive benefits that increase their magical capabilities while the arkenhammer seems to be more of a "go do it yourself" artifact. Stanley was able to beat the crap out of one chief warlord and nearly take on a second high level warlord on his own (i believe that the dragon was not involved in that fight besides getting attacked and still i think he would have had a chance against jillian). The hammer seems to make a warlord incredibly strong as a personal unit and nearly unstopabble in close combat without significant resources being used to stop him. So honestly i see the tools as so far nearly equal in ability, we just have yet to see stanley use them to their fullest advantage in combat that would favor him.

    I almost think that the next arkentool is going to be another close combat related item. If it goes to sizemore it might make him able to lead a hardcore group of golems that are incredibly strong maybe? who knows, but a part of me wants sizemore to be able to continue his graboid tactics and be a serious force to reckon with (and go up another few levels :D ) however so far i believe two tools have been confirmed on the "fate" axis and so i not sure what the others might be. and honestly the hammer looks enough like a carnival "how hard can you hit?" hammer (and it fits the whole close combat thing) that i think its involved with carnymancy.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:35 am 
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    I speculate that the Arkensaw is associated with Gumps, and is either Changemancy or Weirdomancy aligned. I could be way off, though. What do RL dishes have to do with Archons, or hammers have to do with Dwagons? Nothing, as far as I can see.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:17 am 
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    I dunno, the Arkenhammer looks more like a squeaky hammer toy that you can buy for kids. Hell, i used to have a couple when i was little.

    Couldn't summon Dwagons with mine, though...

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 8:52 am 
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    When were any tools confirmed to be on the fate axis? Did I miss a comic?

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 8:59 am 
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    Stanley points out that the Arkenhammer was Fated to become his.

    Ansom points out that Fate magic is useless in his case - the Arkenpliers wont attune to him.

    Those are the only two i can think of.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:09 am 
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    For now we know quite a lot about two arkentools (dish and pliers), Stanley is not a caster, so we might be missing lots of hammer functionality.

    If you look at chapter 40 (or 38a) - giant in the playground one or erfworld.com one

    The dish (it is a sat dish on charlies HQ) affects thinkamancy (which by itself is Life+Motion with Axis as Fate).
    Pliers - is croakamancy (which is Motion+Matter with Axis as Fate).

    Since these tools "natural" `mancy is combined from two of the elements with axis as fate, the other two would be other combinations with the same alignment.


    Now the rest of arkentools might be one for hippiemancy (Life+ Matter) - (parson is a hippiemancer). Allignment Fate - would be a Signamancy. No idea what signamancy is used for (significant-other-mancy)?

    The fourth tool might be from stagemancy (Life+Motion+Matter) and Axis Fate - gives Carnymancy. My guess - this is da hammer.
    Unfortunately, my English is lacking to notice some puns/clever details behind these names.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:33 am 
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    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F038a.jpg
    shows that under the "fate" axis there is thinkamancy (arkendish) and then croakamancy (arkenpliers), havent had anything concrete about the hammer though.

    ninja'd lol

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:40 am 
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    Fair enough. I forgot to check the alignments of the disciplines we've been associated.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:52 am 
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    The hammer on the other hand showed a lot of Shockamancy, Stanley fired a sort of a lightning attack when he was flying with Jack. But then again, Stanley isn't much of a caster. And another thing. Wanda said that it was fated for her to get the Arcenplyers, as did Stanley. So perhaps there is a point to the Fate axis, but if you look at the chart, then you see Shockamancy together with Croakamancy but not on the Fate axis.

    Iz R confused o.0 :(

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:10 am 
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    Mikalyaran wrote:
    When were any tools confirmed to be on the fate axis? Did I miss a comic?


    It's an inference from Ansom's comment "But Fate magic is powerless in my case; I cannot unlock [the Arkenpliers'] secrets."

    Chox wrote:
    The hammer on the other hand showed a lot of Shockamancy, Stanley fired a sort of a lightning attack when he was flying with Jack.


    But is that what Shockamancy is? The incantations (names of notorious Internet "shock site" images) from Sizemore's use of the Shockamancy scroll seem to imply that it's a mental effect ("shocking" the target with horrific images).

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:39 pm 
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    but the thing is in the same comic it has little yellow light lines coming out. I think that those are supposed to be something akin to lightning beams? basically the spell is incanted with words that depict "shocking" things but i think its supposed to be a lightning thing.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:48 am 
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    Mikalyaran wrote:
    When were any tools confirmed to be on the fate axis? Did I miss a comic?

    Yes and no.
    1. Fate magic is powerless in my case
    2. We know that the Arkendish is connected with Thinkamancy and the Arkenpliers with Croakamancy. Both are under Fate axis.
    3. Wanda getting the Arkenpliers was Predicted. Predictamancy lies under Fate axis.
    All that might be a coincidence. But I think it is more than that.

    UPD: I guess it was not ninja'd. It was just me failing to notice that there is more than 1 page in the thread.

    UPD:
    Chox wrote:
    The hammer on the other hand showed a lot of Shockamancy, Stanley fired a sort of a lightning attack when he was flying with Jack.

    As pointed out earlier, Shockamancy is something else.
    I would rather put my money on Stagemancy and Carnymancy in particular. Why?
    1. The Arkenhammer is known to turn things into completely different things (like birds to walnuts and visa versa). This is somewhat similar to what stage magicians often do. Electrical effects (including those resembling lightning, such as Tesla's Magnifying transmitter or Tesla coil) were demonstrated to public in the beginning of the 20th century and considered magic by many.
    2. "Carny" is a slang word for funfair worker. Where would you expect to see a squeaky hammer if not at a funfair? Plus, don't the gwagons perched on the Tower of Efdup remind you of a merry-go-round?

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:46 am 
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    Could we be looking at an Arken-Shovel?

    I'd think that being a dirtamancer (ala Sizemore) would actually be the product "Dirtamancy" and "Changeamancy". Which flows along the Fate axis also. Most likely we're all wrong, but that doesn't stop the fun of speculating.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:32 am 
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    Marlowe wrote:
    I'd think that being a dirtamancer (ala Sizemore) would actually be the product "Dirtamancy" and "Changeamancy". Which flows along the Fate axis also. Most likely we're all wrong, but that doesn't stop the fun of speculating.


    Dirtmancy is a magic field in and of itself. It is separate to Changemancy. Sizemore says that he isn't very good at fields outside his specialty.

    However, maybe he is medium skill at other Stuffamancy fields.

    Dirtamancy isn't on the fate axis, so if Sizemore is to get a tool, the theory that they are linked to fate type magic would have to be dropped.

    OTOH, Stanley isn't even a caster and he has a tool.

    Thus in principle, Sizemore could attune to a tool that is completely unlrelated to his field (or maybe get one that is linked to Changeamancy as you suggest).

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