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 Post subject: Character Ages
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:57 pm 
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Here are my guesses on some character ages.

Vinny: Ancient

Vinny knows about odds, so I'm guessing this means he has a lot of battle experience. People listen to his advice, so I'm assuming he has a reputation for being wise and experienced. Archons fan-girled him. He is experienced with people, demonstrated in his handling of Zumussels in the summer updates. Plus he fits the mentor archetype well and seemed to have a mentor relationship with Ansom.

Ansom: Young

I think Ansom was unproven. The foundation of his confidence seemed to be in his royal status.

Jillian: Young

I'm guessing Jillian was popped just before Faq fell. She doesn't know what people expect from each other, like being fed by the Transylvitonians as they 'escorted' her. Jillian isn't familiar with herself and is unclear about 'what she wants'.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:54 pm 
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    I don't think any single unit in Erfworld can be expected to last very long. Vinny also doesn't strike me as being extremely old or even much of a mentor figure. He's clearly not the top dog in Transylvito, which implies other warlords have more experience or competence, specifically Caesar, the Chief Warlord, who doesn't seem particularly wise or aged.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:29 am 
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    Ansom is level 10 and Jillian is level 9. I don't know how many turns old they are, but they've both croaked a bunch of stuff, so they have some kind of experience. Vinny might be older than either of them, but he's likely only a 7 or 8.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:32 am 
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    Cmdr: Royals are suppose to level 'faster' and it's never been stated what 'high levels' are. I'm wondering if Transylvito sending Vinny & some bats was considered a 'significant' contribution, if so he must have a high level and be respected. It could have political implications later.

    Maldeus: I don't know enough about Transylvito's inner workings to make any predictions.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:43 pm 
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    I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that 9/10 is a pretty high level and that 20 was pretty much unheard of.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:49 pm 
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    You're right about Royals levelling faster - Vinny could be both older and more experienced than them while still being lower level.

    Also, Vinny did provide a significant contribution (politics aside) - beyond his abilities as a "bodyguard" and adviser to Ansom, he provided the RCC with what little reconaissance it had (other than Jillian's questionable contributions on that end).

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:11 pm 
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    But, for that matter, does leveling have anything to do with aging? One levels based on winning battles; I forget if there's been any confirmation that anything else can grant experience points, even casting massive spells for casters. In an anti-entropic—at least in some respects—game-like world, I'd be hesitant to make many guesses about aging, particularly when everyone is popped as an adult.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:33 pm 
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    There's enough reason to speculate people can level without combat - but no hard evidence.

    For instance, Sizemore says he never wants to "level like that" or "that way" - something along those lines - when talking to Janis after the battle.

    So we can guess there are other, slower ways of levelling. If not, we have to assume Sizemore, good as he was at his craft, was only level 1 when Book 1 began.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:44 pm 
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    Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:
    For instance, Sizemore says he never wants to "level like that" or "that way" - something along those lines - when talking to Janis after the battle.

    Of course, "that way" could simply refer to the wholesale immolation of two armies in an what was a literal conflagration on a scale unseen in the history of Erf.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:35 pm 
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    okay, but the crux of the matter is: do you think Sizemore has croaked a significant number of people before, or not?

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:13 pm 
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    Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:
    okay, but the crux of the matter is: do you think Sizemore has croaked a significant number of people before, or not?

    The focus of this thread is aging in Erf, right?

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:25 pm 
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    Yes, when I said "the matter," I meant SIzemore's comments, which I offer as evidence that one can level without combat, since it was brought up that levelling was kill-based and not age-based. So it's tangentially connected.

    More to the point, I don't think "aging" exists in Erfworld, and though one unit might have existed for far more turns, I don't think it really matters much.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:19 pm 
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    I was defining age as 'turns unit has existed' not 'old age' or physical decline.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:26 pm 
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    opal wrote:
    I was defining age as 'turns unit has existed' not 'old age' or physical decline.

    Oddly enough, if we are talking about the experiences which a person has lived, what they've gone through, aren't we also talking about what those experiences are? Monks may spend 18 hours a day in contemplation for decades, but wisdom is, to bend a phrase, made of sterner stuff sometimes. Sizemore may have spend many a boring turn tunneling, but it's his study of other matters that makes his counsel and viewpoint of value.

    My rambling aside, are we then equating recklessness with youth? (From a Darwinian perspective, one assumes that the old don't get old by being reckless, I suppose.)

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:33 pm 
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    Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:
    Yes, when I said "the matter," I meant SIzemore's comments, which I offer as evidence that one can level without combat, since it was brought up that levelling was kill-based and not age-based. So it's tangentially connected.

    More to the point, I don't think "aging" exists in Erfworld, and though one unit might have existed for far more turns, I don't think it really matters much.

    Dunno . . . Don King looked pretty old to me, Sizemore seems to have aged enough to grow bald (unless he was popped bald?), and both Maggie & Janice look distinctly middle aged. It's possible they could pop at that 'age', I would have to wonder why? It would just purely suck to come into existence in late middle age.

    Another question is whether or not units can naturally grow old enough to die of old age, assuming they age at all . . .

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:54 pm 
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    Yes, it would suck to be popped at middle age... for us. But we age. We have a limited span of fertility. We place a premium on youth.

    You have to imagine yourself as someone who will never procreate, possibly never copulate, and never age... you're no closer to death than a young-looking person. You're not as handsome or pretty, which might matter to the Ansoms and Stanleys of the world, but practically there's no difference - unless being "old" makes you weak somehow, and there's no evidence of that - people don't get tired walking around, so an "old" guy with a move of 8 is sprier than a "young" guy with a move of 6.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:58 pm 
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    Popping into existence at all in Erfworld is an unenviable position, regardless. In a war game, when you create a unit, they're regularly middle-aged or old upon their creation, the assumption being that they had some kind of life before they were called upon to serve your faction in the war. In Erfworld, of course, such an assumption is not made and they simply come into existence as whatever age they are and will always be. I don't have any proof, but this fits the feel and mechanics of Erfworld best.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:57 am 
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    Maldeus wrote:
    I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that 9/10 is a pretty high level and that 20 was pretty much unheard of.


    Rob said it over on GitP:
    PClips wrote:
    Higher levels cost more, on a kind of exponential scale that may vary by a large number of factors including the type of unit leveling, the type and number and levels of units croaked, and other activities involving the leveling unit's special abilities that may not even constitute combat. But the main thing is that you should imagine something like a logarithmic curve (not saying it literally is logarithmic), whereby low levels are achievable with a little combat, but levels above 10 or 11 become extremely difficult to obtain, and something like a level 20 unit is completely unheard of. Also notable is that not all of the numbers are available to the units and commanders to calculate, and so the existence of a predicable system of leveling at all is in the realm of the theoretical Mathamancers. Units cannot actually predict when they are going to level (Jillian is being flippant when she tells the Archons, "Cmon, it'll be fun. You'll level." but it would be a reasonable bet they might if they took out a stack of dwagons.)

    This stuff needs to go into the wiki.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:39 pm 
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    Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:
    You're right about Royals levelling faster - Vinny could be both older and more experienced than them while still being lower level.

    Also, Vinny did provide a significant contribution (politics aside) - beyond his abilities as a "bodyguard" and adviser to Ansom, he provided the RCC with what little reconaissance it had (other than Jillian's questionable contributions on that end).

    Isn't Vinny a Royal, too? I seem to recall reading that in one of the strips.

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     Post subject: Re: Character Ages
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:50 pm 
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    Prometheus wrote:
    Isn't Vinny a Royal, too? I seem to recall reading that in one of the strips.

    I believe that he's a Noble.

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