Forum    Members    Search    FAQ

Board index » Erfworld Things » Everything Else Erfworld




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 154 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:39 am 
Offline
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:52 pm
Posts: 572
1


Last edited by GWvsJohn on Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:46 am 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user has been published! This user posted the comment of the month Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am
    Posts: 3704
    GWvsJohn wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    So, a Dollmancer can create magic weapons, given they have the requisite materials on hand, yes?

    And a Foolamancer can instantly make anything that they want, but the veils are intangible, yes?

    So could a linked Foolamancer and Dollmancer instantly create an arsenal of magical weapons out of nothing? I'm going to say yes, but that the weapons would only exist as long as the link was intact.


    Id say turning the figments of a Foolamancer into real items would fall under Carnymancy, not Dollamancy.

    Maybe. Carnymancy would definitely work to create items that were real. But I don't think they'd be able to make magic items, because Foolamancy and Carnymancy are not known for those things. I was thinking a Fool/Doll link could mass produce blasters.

    _________________
    I'm writing a fan fiction. It's called Murder in the Magic Kingdom. Check it out, if you'd like. Completed May 5th, 2015

    I'm writing a sequel! It's called Finding Sanctuary. Please do give it a look. Last updated December 1st, 2016.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:28 am 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:36 pm
    Posts: 1913
    I think the foolamancer can create the impression of the existence of a thing, in as many senses as they opt to provide.

    This does not make these impressions actually things.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:46 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:51 pm
    Posts: 673
    GWvsJohn wrote:
    Id say turning the figments of a Foolamancer into real items would fall under Carnymancy, not Dollamancy.


    Don't forget, the eyebooks were created by an eyemancer link, and none of those disciplines seems inherently able to create physical objects. So, I don't think Carnymancy is necessary to make a discipline that normally doesn't make items do so. Not in a link, at least.

    (Though, Carnymancy-Florist links did demonstrate the ability to create Flower Power plants and spells that could imitate other disciplines. So, a Carnymancer-Foolamancer link might be able to allow Foolamancy to imitate Shockamancy or Dollamancy.)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:16 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4412
    Location: Morlock Wells
    All this recent talk of Specials gave me an idea.

    Sign-Think-Weird: Alter an existing unit into an entirely different type. By simultaneously changing both their specials and their appearance, you might be able to effect a permanent change. Or at worst, a change that would last as long as the casters are alive, as was the case with Maxwell making sentient golems.

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:53 pm 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:21 pm
    Posts: 1097
    0beron wrote:
    All this recent talk of Specials gave me an idea.

    Sign-Think-Weird: Alter an existing unit into an entirely different type. By simultaneously changing both their specials and their appearance, you might be able to effect a permanent change. Or at worst, a change that would last as long as the casters are alive, as was the case with Maxwell making sentient golems.

    How plausible do you think a "metamorphosis" special would be? Not only can you change the unit fundamentally, you can change it on command! Or perhaps at the start of every turn. Automatic extremely versatile armies sound pretty handy. :D

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:07 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4412
    Location: Morlock Wells
    Th Revanchist wrote:
    How plausible do you think a "metamorphosis" special would be? Not only can you change the unit fundamentally, you can change it on command! Or perhaps at the start of every turn. Automatic extremely versatile armies sound pretty handy. :D
    I think that miiiight be possible, but I don't think it'd be done with the Sign/Think/Wierd link I suggested. Frequent and rapid change like that is directly in contradiction to Signamancy's nature. Uninhabited hexes revert gradually to a wilderness state through Natural Signamancy, units change slowly over time based on their experiences. I guess the simplest way to sum up what I'm thinking is that Signamancy describes what things ARE, so using it to deliberately create vagueness/change doesn't seem like a good fit.

    To do what you suggest would probably require Changemancy or Carnymancy to be involved:
    • Change/Weird: Gives a unit an "unstable" metamorphasis Special that adapts as you suggest, but can't be maintained for very long, since it's not rooted in the Signamancy.
    • Change/Sign: Gives a unit the ability to adapt rapidly but probably couldn't alter specials. Might merely give their Natural Luckamancy or othe rhidden Numbers a nudge in the right direction if they're in a situation they'd adapted to.
    • Weird/Carny: Cheat away any rules that might limit the duration of Weirdomancy-granted Specials, and generally make the Specials more variable.

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:28 pm 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:21 pm
    Posts: 1097
    0beron wrote:
    Th Revanchist wrote:
    How plausible do you think a "metamorphosis" special would be? Not only can you change the unit fundamentally, you can change it on command! Or perhaps at the start of every turn. Automatic extremely versatile armies sound pretty handy. :D
    I think that miiiight be possible, but I don't think it'd be done with the Sign/Think/Wierd link I suggested. Frequent and rapid change like that is directly in contradiction to Signamancy's nature. Uninhabited hexes revert gradually to a wilderness state through Natural Signamancy, units change slowly over time based on their experiences. I guess the simplest way to sum up what I'm thinking is that Signamancy describes what things ARE, so using it to deliberately create vagueness/change doesn't seem like a good fit.

    To do what you suggest would probably require Changemancy or Carnymancy to be involved:
    • Change/Weird: Gives a unit an "unstable" metamorphasis Special that adapts as you suggest, but can't be maintained for very long, since it's not rooted in the Signamancy.
    • Change/Sign: Gives a unit the ability to adapt rapidly but probably couldn't alter specials. Might merely give their Natural Luckamancy or othe rhidden Numbers a nudge in the right direction if they're in a situation they'd adapted to.
    • Weird/Carny: Cheat away any rules that might limit the duration of Weirdomancy-granted Specials, and generally make the Specials more variable.

    So as I've written it, probably impossible. Based on the disciplines involved, as we understand them, either not offering the control or permanence to effect such a change. Ah well. Looks like the cheap-as-golems, fast-as-bats, tough-as-dwagons uber-units are on hold. :)

    How about a bizarre linkup to someone to tackle?
    What might be created by a Signamancer/Thinkamancer/Mathamancer? I can't figure it out. :)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:04 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:06 am
    Posts: 487
    i wonder the effects of linking 2 casters of the same type. maybe two shocks linking could create a spell that razes an entire hex. or since linking casters can effect multiple hexes, make a cannon that blast many hexes. it would be broken, but i dont see many sceneriors that a kingdom could get two shocks that would be willing to be in a link up.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:48 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4412
    Location: Morlock Wells
    conmor wrote:
    since linking casters can effect multiple hexes.
    Linking casters doesn't do that. Uncroaking the Volcano affected multiple hexes, because it was a terrain feature trait (presumably when a volcano erupts naturally, it would affect multiple hexes as well). The Eyemancer link didn't "effect" multiple hexes, it just saw remotely (what a Lookamancer can already do alone) and sent orders remotely (what a Thinkamancer can already do alone). Kingworld didn't effect any hexes at all, it targeted Turn order, an abstract and non-physical entity.
    Links have the possibility to affect multple hexes based on the specific spell and disciplines used, but linking in of itself is not an automatic "multiple hex target gooooo".

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:31 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:51 pm
    Posts: 673
    Whether the actual spell crosses hexes or not, it is certainly true that the effects of caster links do cross hex lines. Apart from the Volcano, which was described as a multi-hex Dirtamancy Trap and definitely required the link to reach outside its own hex to work, there's Vanna and Charlie's link that ended the Turn of GK's entire side even though neither the ruler nor chief warlord that normally make that decision were in the hex at the time. And, of course, the Eyemancers were able to see details of multiple hexes beyond their own (something we've never actually confirmed Lookamancers can do on their own and which Isaac has heavily implied can only be done within the Lookamancer's hex.)

    I'm not sure we have any other examples of caster links doing something other than making items/units, but it would not surprise me to learn that the Hex barrier is one that caster links have the power to break.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:54 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:17 pm
    Posts: 747
    Unfortunately, gotta disagree, Godz.

    The Eyemancers can see multiple hexes, but Lookamancer's normally can. In Jillian's flight from Haffaton, she talks about almost reaching Orwell's range; that's almost definitely Lookamancy spotting units in different hexes. It maybe be that really clear sight like reading can only be done in the same hex.

    Kingworld I'm a little bit less certain of, but they certainly met the requirements for being under attack by Gobwin Knob's forces to cast. The spell affected GK, which was in the hex, even if the Chief Warlord / Ruler weren't. I'm pretty sure that you don't have to be in their capital to Kingworld somebody.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:09 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4412
    Location: Morlock Wells
    Allow me to reiterate my point in more directly language, since what I said in the first place answers everything you brought up Godz.
    No link has ever created an effect that crossed a hex boundary when one of the disciplines involved lacked the power to cross a boundary in the first place.
    • Eyemancers: Lookamancers and Thinkamancers already do specific things that cross hex boundaries, and the link used only those existing capacities
    • Kingworld: Turnamancy influences time/production/turn order, etc, which are abstract mechanics that have no physical presence within a hex anyway.
    • TPK: Utilized the TERRAIN FEATURE of a volcano. They did not cast a multi-hex Dirtamancy Trap, that is just the only explanation other sides to speculate to explain how so many units in multiple hexes had croaked. They caused a volcanic eruption, which by itself damaged multiple hexes, and would do so if it had occurred naturally.
    The only MINOR anomaly is Charlie. He still has never caused a cross-boundary effect except with disciplines that can do so already, but due to the 'Dish specifically he can make links when the casters are in separate hexes. This isn't the same thing as making a spell that automatically hits across hex boundaries. And furthermore, we now have in-comic evidence that the 'Dish allows with Thinkamancy effects that are completely outside the norm of standard Thinkamancy. So anything you see Charlie do is a trait of the DISH, not Thinkamancy.

    So I repeat, making a claim that "Links, by definition, automatically allow spells to cross hex boundaries" is in no uncertain terms, completely false and fabricated.

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:30 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:51 pm
    Posts: 673
    0beron wrote:
    [*]TPK: Utilized the TERRAIN FEATURE of a volcano. They did not cast a multi-hex Dirtamancy Trap, that is just the only explanation other sides to speculate to explain how so many units in multiple hexes had croaked. They caused a volcanic eruption, which by itself damaged multiple hexes, and would do so if it had occurred naturally.


    Since you are right that the other two examples are on shaky ground, I'd like to discuss this one a bit more. You say that the linked casters did not cast a multi-hex Dirtamancy trap. I assert that 1) I never said they did, I only said the affect was applied across multiple hexes, and 2) to uncroak the volcano, the spell had to cross hex boundaries.

    Assertion 1 seems pretty self-evident, and I feel you've already agreed that the effect of the spell crossed hex barriers.

    Assertion 2 seems to require more explaining. I support it with the following:
      A) The volcano itself is a multi-hex terrain feature. You see this in various ways through Book 1 as the RCC approaches the city. The city (and the hex it is in) is only in the crater of the volcano.
      B) The caster link visually used its magical "reach" to enfold the entirety of the volcano. This was in Book 1 Page 135.

    (I'd meant to type more, but time caught up with me irl. I'll come back later.)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:19 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4412
    Location: Morlock Wells
    To be clear, you DID call TPK a multi-hex Dirtamancy trap. To be technical, you specifically said "which was described as a multi-hex Dirtamancy trap", with no indication that you disagreed with this description. So let's not backpedal, if you're going to make a claim then stand by it, or acknowledge that you've changed your mind, don't pretend you never made the claim in the first place.

    As for the specific geography of the Volcano, that too is very shaky ground and you're reaching there. We have absolutely no idea where the hex boundaries actually are here, and the abstract depiction of the Volcano being uncroaked doesn't necessarily realistically match up to the surrounding hexes. For example, we know that the city's tunnel system has outlets at least a few hexes away from the volcano itself, yet we see none of those outlets in that drawing. Secondly, even if we assume there are multiple hexes present, the casters aren't touching them anyway. They're making the Heart, the pool of magma directly below the city, beat again. That's all they did, everything else was the Volcano following it's natural course, with a tiny bit of nudging from Sizemore to try and push up some gem pockets, still within the city hex itself.

    So I'll repeat myself for a third time now, I completely agree and acknowledge that the eruption dealt damage to multiple hexes, which is something a Volcano would do naturally. All the casters needed to do in order to bring it about was give Motion to the hex they were already in.

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:27 am 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:06 am
    Posts: 487
    i just want two shocks to link to create a mortar cannon. uggghhh you are turning it into an argument. fine then how about a look shock link up to create a sniper rifle. archers can already fire across hex boundaries. make a sniper that can fire across multiple hexes. would be fun. and parson just needs a shock.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:27 am 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4412
    Location: Morlock Wells
    Makes sense to me. A Carny alone might be able to make regular archers fire further too, but the Look/Shock (or Look/Doll more likely) could make an actual item which would be more useful and powerful.

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:03 pm 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:27 pm
    Posts: 208
    0beron wrote:
    Makes sense to me. A Carny alone might be able to make regular archers fire further too, but the Look/Shock (or Look/Doll more likely) could make an actual item which would be more useful and powerful.

    I hope you don't think it's any coincidence that Parson just got access to a high level archery warlord, a dollamancer and a lookamancer.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:06 pm 
    User avatar
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
    Posts: 4412
    Location: Morlock Wells
    Alpha the White wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Makes sense to me. A Carny alone might be able to make regular archers fire further too, but the Look/Shock (or Look/Doll more likely) could make an actual item which would be more useful and powerful.

    I hope you don't think it's any coincidence that Parson just got access to a high level archery warlord, a dollamancer and a lookamancer.
    Except for the sad fact that Lady Decryptemis is now very likely stuck in the MK, limiting the applications of such a technique :(

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:36 am 
    This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:07 am
    Posts: 675
    Homing arrows shot through portals?

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
    Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     
    Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 154 posts ] 

    Board index » Erfworld Things » Everything Else Erfworld


    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 11 guests

     
     

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum

    Search for:
    Jump to: