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 Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:38 pm 
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Noah, only Warlords have purses. If Vurp is not a Warlord, he can't pop anything, no matter how much you pay him. That means to pop more, you need to wait for a Hobgobwin Warlord to pop. which will take time. In the interim, Hobgobwin regulars that pop will filter towards GK, slowly bolstering the numbers.

Only if Vurp can somehow train to be a Warlord would this change. We know it takes a Capital to promote a normal unit from a Vapital Side, but Natural Allies normally don't have cities, and so would not use this method, if they could be promoted at all. Any theoretical method for Vurp to progress to Warlord is speculative and unsupported.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:04 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    Noah, only Warlords have purses. If Vurp is not a Warlord, he can't pop anything, no matter how much you pay him.


    He may be able to trigger the effect directly by holding the gems. If that is possible, then the best plan would be to pop a warlord.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:12 pm 
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    I would expect him to be paid in Shmuckers, so it wouldn't be an issue. My problem is that only Rulers set production for Capital Sides. I have a hard time accepting that an infantry unit (Knight-class or not) can set production for a Natural Ally.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:22 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    I would expect him to be paid in Shmuckers, so it wouldn't be an issue. My problem is that only Rulers set production for Capital Sides. I have a hard time accepting that an infantry unit (Knight-class or not) can set production for a Natural Ally.


    I meant that Sizemore would physically hand him the gems (presumably with Stanley's permission), purely as a means to circumvent any purse requirements, if that was the only problem.

    It is possible that Natural Allies operate differently than Capital sides. We have seem natural allies with warlords, but not with anything resembling a ruler.

    Also, without a city to call their own a ruler would be very vulnerable. If the warlords are the highest ranks, then it seems reasonable that they would have better (or at least less fragile) succession rules than capital sides. The question would be if it was capable of handling a situation where all of their warlords are croaked. If so, then that rule should trigger in the current situation.

    I wonder if a Ruler can name a line of succession, rather than just 1 heir.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:17 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    Noah, only Warlords have purses. If Vurp is not a Warlord, he can't pop anything, no matter how much you pay him. That means to pop more, you need to wait for a Hobgobwin Warlord to pop. which will take time. In the interim, Hobgobwin regulars that pop will filter towards GK, slowly bolstering the numbers.

    Only if Vurp can somehow train to be a Warlord would this change. We know it takes a Capital to promote a normal unit from a Vapital Side, but Natural Allies normally don't have cities, and so would not use this method, if they could be promoted at all. Any theoretical method for Vurp to progress to Warlord is speculative and unsupported.


    Yeah, my guess had been that Vurp was not a Warlord (though I guess he could be) and I was wondering what would happen if a Natural Allies side were whittled down such that there are no more Commanders. Since we know so little about the mechanics, it's hard to say. I assumed that the alliance automatically paid their 'salary' into a treasury somewhere - so Vurp wouldn't have to handle the money, but I dunno if he can purchase troops.

    Would more hobgobwins and gobwins pop randomly in the wild? Maybe. But would they head to GK? I dunno. If Vurp is all that's left, and he can't handle the finances, as it were, what happens to the alliance? Does it dissolve? Is his upkeep still covered? How does that work out?

    If Vurp is the last remaining Hobgobwin, can he name himself Warlord, like "promoting" but self-starting? I dunno.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:33 pm 
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    It costs huge to train a Unit to Warlord rank for a Capital Side, but a Natural Ally can simply declare himself? That's completely assymetrical.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:34 pm 
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    Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:
    Yeah, my guess had been that Vurp was not a Warlord (though I guess he could be)


    The shortage of warlords was key for the donut of doom trick (i.e. once all the warlords died with the injured dragons, they couldn't do selective attacks). Also, Manpower was described as Stanley's last warlord.

    Ofc, that doesn't necessarily mean that his natural allies had no warlords.

    Vurp was probably pretty high level though, as Stanley would have picked the strongest, so he might be close to high enough level to be a warlord. It might be possible for Natural Allies to be auto-promoted to warlord once they reach a certain level.

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    Would more hobgobwins and gobwins pop randomly in the wild? Maybe. But would they head to GK? I dunno. If Vurp is all that's left, and he can't handle the finances, as it were, what happens to the alliance? Does it dissolve? Is his upkeep still covered? How does that work out?


    It could just continue by default, since nobody can change the state. However, if Stanley broke the alliance, then it couldn't be reformed.

    Vurp could probably break it too, by attacking one of Stanley's units. Non-warlords mightn't be allowed to attack allies, unless the alliance is formally broken.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:53 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    It costs huge to train a Unit to Warlord rank for a Capital Side, but a Natural Ally can simply declare himself? That's completely assymetrical.


    Who says he does it for free? Also, train might not be the right word.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:50 am 
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    Given Janis' advice to Sizemore, I'm expecting it'll be Sizemore who fills that role volountarily. I sort of see Sizemore as Obi-wan to Janis' Qui Gon Jin. Janis believes Parson will break the world enough for a lasting peace. If Sizemore follows her lead, he'll not want to be far from Parson (and he's filled that role temporarily - remember the chamberpot scene?). Stanley doesn't seem to value his skills beyond creating goloms, so I doubt there'll be any need for Wanda to assign another lacky (remember it was Wanda who promoted Bogroll to Parsons manservant, not a choice of Parsons).

    Dent.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:55 am 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    My problem is that only Rulers set production for Capital Sides.


    Are you sure of this? I seem to recall that Warlords can set production? It is possible that I'm confusing Overlord and Warlord, but I thought Parson had some say in what units were popped at least.

    Dent.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:15 am 
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    Bogroll was a twoll. Sizemore is a caster. Having Sizemore be the lackey would be degrading even for him, I'm guessing. Sizemore can play Obi-Wan without being Parson's lackey. Whoever the lackey is, he's got to take out the chamber pots, bring Parson his meals when he needs to be in other places, and help him into his armor. Sizemore's job is to muck with golems.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:19 am 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    It costs huge to train a Unit to Warlord rank for a Capital Side, but a Natural Ally can simply declare himself? That's completely assymetrical.


    What known parts of Natural Tribes and Capital Sides are symetrical?

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:42 pm 
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    DentedHead wrote:
    Kreistor wrote:
    My problem is that only Rulers set production for Capital Sides.


    Are you sure of this? I seem to recall that Warlords can set production? It is possible that I'm confusing Overlord and Warlord, but I thought Parson had some say in what units were popped at least.

    Nope. Overlord sets production orders for all cities. From what we could see, Gobwin Knob was busy producing a dwagon through the entirety of Book 1.

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:31 pm 
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    Maldeus wrote:
    Bogroll was a twoll. Sizemore is a caster. Having Sizemore be the lackey would be degrading even for him, I'm guessing. Sizemore can play Obi-Wan without being Parson's lackey. Whoever the lackey is, he's got to take out the chamber pots, bring Parson his meals when he needs to be in other places, and help him into his armor. Sizemore's job is to muck with golems.

    True, except the "meals when he needs to be in other places" doesn't seem to be relevant -- Parson's first Stupid Meal popped where Parson happened to be at the time (Stanley's office).

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:56 pm 
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    On the other hand, Bogroll did apparently cook Parson's dinner on the night of the sing-along

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     Post subject: Re: The Better Lacky
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:43 pm 
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    That's what I was thinking of.

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