Forum    Members    Search    FAQ

Board index » Erfworld Things » Everything Else Erfworld




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:28 am 
Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
Offline
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:47 pm
Posts: 16
Now, we know so far Sizemore has only managed to modify terrain type by virtue of the link up, but that was really only a matter of uncroaking the volcano and letting it do what volcano's do best.

But, I can't see any reason that he couldn't do so by himself, at least in limited quantities, aside from lack of idea or lack of tradition of doing so.

We already know the physics of Erfworld are slightly different [Lava lake that never cools], so this will mainly be Pure Speculation mixed with a small touch of what we have seen happen so far.

We know that Sizemore is able to create tunnels in a hex that is not a city [Its what he just did in The Magic Kingdom]. Not much difference between a tunnel and a ditch, or say an aqueduct. Assuming that Water, Lava or a liquid in general (who knows if there are Acid lake terrain types yet) flows to encompass its container, and as we have seen no reason yet that Dirtamancy cannot Eventually (with a lot of Juice) cause an entire hex to be shaped into a ditch/aqueduct/valley that is incredibly deep, well it would be like irrigation on a large scale. He could change the terrain of a hex from a plains, forest, mountain, etc, into a river [of water or lava]. Something like that would severely aide a side thats heavy Navy and Air because then you don't have to worry about ground types as much, since without a bridge you can't really get ground types across that terrain. Its like making a moat :)

Course then the question becomes, does an artificial terrain provide the same benefits/penalties as a "natural" terrain, and would it persist as long.

_________________
---------------------------------
Magus

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:09 am 
    Offline
    Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 6:39 pm
    Posts: 90
    That's a very Parson-esque idea! Kudos. My guess is that though it's a totally legit exploit, it would sorta conform to conservation of energy (cause everything in Erfworld is sorta like our Stupidworld stuff). That is, you'd start dispersing the "juice" of lava until it was nonlethal. The thing that let Wanda (via Sizemore) pull that off was the sheer power and focus of a trimancer link - that gave them the energy to imbue into the land to change its physical state.

    Which is a totally boop pseudo-physics explanation for the mechanics of a TBS, but it sounds like something a game designer (e.g. Parson) would come up with.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:27 am 
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:47 pm
    Posts: 16
    Well I figured the Lava would be a bigger problem than Water either way. After all we IRL made the Panama Canal after all, so a river of Water would make more sense and be easier than the Lava river. Still it might be a useful thing if Water Travel was a useful thing [Mass Troop transport, sending of goods and services etc etc] for a self sustaining economy thing. After all, most real world places relied on water access for economic reasons. Being able to make a river flow to where you need it to be could be pretty damn useful.

    Side note: We know Sizemore and Maggie can two man link up pretty easy, so that would be a way to make some dirtamancy a bit more efficient. Also, since Lava is just super heated liquid rock, that might be under the purview of Dirtamancy anyway

    _________________
    ---------------------------------
    Magus

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:36 am 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:36 pm
    Posts: 986
    Yahoo Messenger: tick_72000@yahoo.com
    It's possible, though we don't know how long such an endeavor would take if it could be done.

    _________________
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:59 am 
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:47 pm
    Posts: 16
    True true. And its not as if there are a great deal of Dirtamancers readily available (at least to our knowledge). It would be more of a long term project sorta thing, probably along the lines of the self suffiency hack. But it would certainly provide more defensive options. Since theoretically if you can make a river, you could just keep piling dirt up and make Mountains instead. Or make a mountain, hollow it out, and build a city inside of it.

    _________________
    ---------------------------------
    Magus

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:12 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 10:38 am
    Posts: 830
    It is also possible that the lava/water simply will not flow through the hex boundary, unless both sides are river type.

    That could be useful, as you could create a "wall" of lava by digging down on the other side of the boundary.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:40 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:46 pm
    Posts: 183
    To argue the other side...

    Quote:
    It was magnificent, Warlord. Horrifying, but... I can't describe it. I actually modified the terrain type, like a Titan.


    It sounds like modifying the terrain type is unique in Sizemore's experience, and even in his imagination. I don't see it being done by a single caster.

    But I take your point about moats and ditches. That could be done within a hex. So my quibble may be more semantic than substantive. Still, there's a difference between tunneling around in a hex, and actually hollowing out a whole hex.

    ...

    I'm more intrigued by the implications of construction and farming being manual labors rather than city functions in the magic kingdom (and Dirtamancy being useful for such). Maybe that's also possible in Erfworld proper, but perhaps not cost-effective. But I wonder what I what a tri-mancer link with a Dirtamancer and Florist could accomplish - possibly altering the terrain type also but for productive gardens.

    And...
    Spoiler: show
    ...it opens up a possibility for the end-game if the Arkentools are gathered with Parson in charge. He's already played around with the idea of self-sufficient sides (by popping harvestable heavies). What if he used the Arkentools together to rewrite the rules of the world, and create or unlock "citizen" units to fill the empty cities and work farms. The implied received wisdom is that sides have to fight to survive, but Parson's the one guy in Erfworld who can conceive of something different and might be able to impose it.

    (This may not be my original idea, but I don't remember if I've seen it before. Post if you're my inspiration.)


    ...

    In passing, its very possible Dirtamancers are rare all over, but we only know for sure about the magic kingdom. Conceivably they're more common in Erfworld proper, and valuable enough no side ever cuts them loose if they can help it. We know about golem creation and leadership, Schmucker production by mining, discounted city rebuilding, and ground trap construction. As opposed to Date-a-mancers who we're told get ditched sometimes, useful casters who can cover their own upkeep sound like keepers. And they've got a direct combat use by leading their own stacks of golems, so their numbers might get thinned in last stands rather than being ordered directly into the MK by doomed sides.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:28 pm 
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:47 pm
    Posts: 16
    Well how I see it, many times with regards to things being done in Erfworld, its not a matter of it being impossible, so much as not having the thought to do so. For example the mount relays for speed.

    Hence why I figured it wasn't so much a matter of him not being able to do something, as never having had the idea or reason to do so. Like tunneling in the Magic Kingdom :)

    _________________
    ---------------------------------
    Magus

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:29 pm 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:36 pm
    Posts: 986
    Yahoo Messenger: tick_72000@yahoo.com
    The idea of this stuff being able to cross hex boundaries or not is quite interesting. I guess if we see GK with a lava moat soon we'll know

    _________________
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:32 am 
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:47 pm
    Posts: 16
    So far we know hex boundaries are pretty hard core. The only thing that has hit multiple hexes at the same time was the volcano eruption, which was deemed a dirtamancy trap, though whether thats what it Is, or how it was Interpreted by erfworlders is more speculation.

    We know that Parson has been experimenting with erfworld physics already with regards to fall heights. Wouldn't be surprised if he got hold of a dollamancer (ohh like say Ace <.<) and started gearing his troops with parachutes so they don't take fall damage again. Or have the trolls fabricate some 'chutes.


    But yeah, if Water happens to follow different rules about flowing through hexes, hell Parson could probably see about causing a Tidal Wave to attack coastal cities as combat options. There is no magic that we have seen associated with water (See Chart) but theoretically it would fall under Motion and Matter (which happens to be the Naughtymancy class) and its an aspect of Erf. So Shockamancy could theoretically be used to help push some water about in this case.

    If it required a link up, well a link made with Dirt and Shock would probably be the necessary link to change terrain to a river sorta thing

    _________________
    ---------------------------------
    Magus

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:48 pm 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 6:42 pm
    Posts: 548
    dblmagus wrote:
    But yeah, if Water happens to follow different rules about flowing through hexes, hell Parson could probably see about causing a Tidal Wave to attack coastal cities as combat options. There is no magic that we have seen associated with water (See Chart) but theoretically it would fall under Motion and Matter (which happens to be the Naughtymancy class) and its an aspect of Erf. So Shockamancy could theoretically be used to help push some water about in this case.

    If it required a link up, well a link made with Dirt and Shock would probably be the necessary link to change terrain to a river sorta thing


    Holy crap, that's a nasty thought. Tital waves are chump change. Falls are Natural Shockamancy. With a Dirt/Shock tri-link, you could use the land itself as a weapon. If you enhance that natural shockamancy and use the dirtamancer to make opportunities for the enemy to fall, you could sit back and watch entire regiments die by tripping over a rock. And that's just the start

    Build terrain that causes permanent thunderstorms around your cities and enhance the lightning to nuke armies before they even get close to your cities. Hedge mazes with poison thorns. Rivers with rapids that destroy boats and eat men alive. Treacherous mountain paths with falls guaranteed to leave you dead. Sun Tzu talks about killing ground. This could be literal.

    _________________
    "All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu, Chapter 1, Line 18, The Art of War

    "The principle of strategy is to know ten thousand things by having one thing." - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Earth, Go Rin No Sho

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:11 am 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:36 pm
    Posts: 986
    Yahoo Messenger: tick_72000@yahoo.com
    I dunno if that stuff is in sizemores abilities. He can dig tunnels, make earthen golems and that kinda stuff.

    _________________
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:49 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:31 pm
    Posts: 262
    Problems would be hex walls stopping water/lava flowing (I love the idea of a wall of lava though, I never thought of that), terrain type not changing (boats can't cross the hex even if there's water, so filling it up with buckets wont help either), and of course the enormous amounts of resources spent.

    I always wondered why not make bunkers though. Small walls, arrow slits (if effective), trenches, and just difficult terrain to cross quickly and in formation. Put those on the pathway up to GK to sap defenders cheaply before the reach the city in the advent of another battle there. And of course lava sprinklers in all the walls and stored in the walls so that lava leaks when the poor miners poke a hole in the wall....

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:57 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:15 pm
    Posts: 1423
    The bunker idea is probably possible. Seems well within the range of things Dirtamancy can do.

    _________________
    For those in the USA: Have you wondered what you would do during in the civil rights movement, or in the 1930s?

    Well, what did you do yesterday? Now you know.

    Let's all be the kind of people we wish everyone had been then. Show up. Call. Resist.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:18 am 
    User avatar
    Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm
    Posts: 993
    Heh... perhaps even dig out a path for water to flow into a hex on GK's turn, and then retreat one hex and set up a strong defensive position. On the enemy's turn they move to the hex that your side just vacated and end turn waiting for reinforcements. Night comes.

    And then on the water's turn.... :twisted:

    _________________
    Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:38 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:25 pm
    Posts: 274
    dblmagus wrote:
    ... We already know the physics of Erfworld are slightly different [Lava lake that never cools], so this will mainly be Pure Speculation mixed with a small touch of what we have seen happen so far...



    We have lava lakes that do not cool.

    Image

    We do not have any reason to believe that Gobwin Gnob will "never cool" it just has not appeared to cool for multiple turns. The lake in the photo has been raging since the day it was discovered by people who could write about it, ~1882. The carbon dioxide and methane in lake kivo could also create a multiple hex dirtamancy trap.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:29 pm 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user has been published! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:09 pm
    Posts: 544
    pSycHOtic chICkeN wrote:
    We do not have any reason to believe that Gobwin Gnob will "never cool" it just has not appeared to cool for multiple turns. The lake in the photo has been raging since the day it was discovered by people who could write about it, ~1882. The carbon dioxide and methane in lake kivo could also create a multiple hex dirtamancy trap.

    That is a good point. The GK volcano was uncroaked, not activated. We know that uncroaked units decay over time. I would imagine it would take a lot longer for uncroaked rock to decay than it takes uncroaked flesh.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:57 am 
    User avatar
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:13 pm
    Posts: 181
    imagine if they decripted it

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
    Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     
    Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

    Board index » Erfworld Things » Everything Else Erfworld


    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 4 guests

     
     

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum

    Search for:
    Jump to: