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 Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:03 pm 
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Take a look at this page: http://www.erfworld.com/wp-content/uplo ... 1/040a.jpg

Parson gets a pair of glasses that let him see "what every other warlord and caster can see naturally... unit stats."

Does this mean that overlords and rulers cannot see these things? The story seems to imply that Stanley can see Parson's stats or is at least disturbed by Parson's lack of stats.

But the very first thing in the stats is the character's name. Right there. "Bogroll."

Do the glasses only show you the names of characters you already know or is Stanley just blind to this somehow?

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     Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:34 pm 
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    Ambug666 wrote:
    Take a look at this page: http://www.erfworld.com/wp-content/uplo ... 1/040a.jpg

    Parson gets a pair of glasses that let him see "what every other warlord and caster can see naturally... unit stats."

    Does this mean that overlords and rulers cannot see these things? The story seems to imply that Stanley can see Parson's stats or is at least disturbed by Parson's lack of stats.

    But the very first thing in the stats is the character's name. Right there. "Bogroll."

    Do the glasses only show you the names of characters you already know or is Stanley just blind to this somehow?


    That's Parson's quote from his Klog. He's not a native. He doesn't have the same abilities they do. Parson has to work within the limitations of the Spell. Because Stanley didn't shell out for the support plan, the Spell has to make due. Those glasses are Erfworld's way of making due. So while Parson is limited to only SEEING stats, that doesn't mean that native Erfworlders perceive things that way. No one ever actually says anything about how Erfworlders perceive the stats of another person. Maybe it's just something that they can just intuit, rather than see floating over their head like Parson does. Parson uses the word "see" because that's how he does it. That's his only point of reference. But that doesn't mean anything. The fact that they know the stats doesn't mean that they actually SEE the numbers floating around them.

    As for names, Parson uses the glasses, which are an artifact. Certainly Mathamancers don't use calculators to do sums the way that Parson does. Erfworlders don't need glasses to percieve the stats of a unit. But Parson does. So perhaps the glasses provide additional functionality. Perhaps Parson can see MORE than Erfworlders. Including names.

    Parson's not a native Erfworlder. Parson's an alien in this world. Parson also uses artifacts. Don't use Parson as an exemplar for what Erfworlders are able to do.

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     Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:54 pm 
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    Yeah either seeing names is a parson only thing or stan is just too lazy to look or just doesn't care.

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     Post Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:08 am 
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    It is almost certain that Parson can see names and others can't. Parson can see names because when he sent a thinkagram to Jack, he was surprised to see that the Foolamancer's last name was Snipe. And other units can't see names because we saw Stanley staring at Jack, trying to remember his name, and Maggie claimed that she never learned his name despite having spent many turns right next to him during their linking sessions.

    However, it might be that Parson needs to know at least part of a unit's name before he sees the whole thing. Although there is little to no evidence for or against this possibility.

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     Post Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:44 am 
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    It does seem like the glasses let you see names in addition to the stats. Perhaps when it said "Lets him see what other warlords and casters can naturally see... stats" it literally meant the stats part was what the warlords and casters could see. I don't think your name counts as a stat, it can't increase obviously (Ansom digivolved to Waransom!)

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     Post Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:47 am 
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    Heh, perhaps Stanley, having come up from a commoner's background, can't read.

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    Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.

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     Post Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:45 am 
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    effataigus wrote:
    Heh, perhaps Stanley, having come up from a commoner's background, can't read.

    That wouldn't explain why Maggie didn't know his name either.

    Also, when Parson first appeared, Stanley complained about not being able to see his points, which wouldn't be an issue if he couldn't read them anyway. (Admittedly, it wouldn't be at all unlike Stanley to complain about something that doesn't actually make any difference.)

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     Post Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:41 pm 
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    Maybe the glasses take any information you have - a known name, and the visual impression - and process it by signamancy to extract stats. So, for example, it could observe Bogroll and determine attack and hits, and scour Parson's memory and deduce name and special. Perhaps it could even extract the special by close examination.

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     Post Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:03 pm 
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    Wasnt it stated that every troll has a fabrication special?

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     Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 2:37 am 
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    Fabo wrote:
    Wasnt it stated that every troll has a fabrication special?


    Yeah, Regeneration was the old special. It slipped back into the book by treachery and deceit.

    Plus, it just won't die.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 1:07 pm 
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    yep, the titans retcon power is hit and miss.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:46 pm 
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    I think it's more that Regeneration regenerated.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:05 pm 
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    Ba dum tish! ;)


    I always thought of stats being known as being sort of like in an RL strategy game. You, the player, can see unit stats through a menu, screen, card, whatever, but your character in the game (if any) doesn't necessarily have a menu popping up in front of their face. For high-tech games, I imagine the info would probably be delivered through a computer or machine, and for fantasy games, it could be magical, or instinctive/intuitive, or learned knowledge. For Erfworld, it seems like various commanders can know a great deal immediately after being popped, probably enough to fulfill their initial duties. After that, they can learn more the regular way. It's unknown if promoting a unit causes a burst of new knowledge to be gained, or if they have to go out and actually learn it.

    Parson can see names with the glasses, he could see Jack's last name before he knew it. (Wanda seemingly only told him the first name) It doesn't look like Stanley can intuit names tho. Again, I don't think Stanley has a menu/hud popping up over his field of vision, but rather an instinctive knowledge about certain units. "See his stats" may be slang or a common expression rather than a literal meaning. Then again, maybe Stanley gets that info but can't read all of it. We don't see much through Stanley's eyes.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:18 pm 
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    Beeskee wrote:
    Parson can see names with the glasses, he could see Jack's last name before he knew it. (Wanda seemingly only told him the first name) It doesn't look like Stanley can intuit names tho.


    That's gotta be rare, or even unique to Parson's glasses. Why else would people introduce themselves?

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     Post Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:09 pm 
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    etiquette?

    at least, that's a reason I would set my bets on if people can see each others names.

    like jillian said:
    Quote:
    There's a ritual. Etiquette. It's stupid


    but it's concidered normal.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:50 pm 
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    Right sure, but that ritual would never develop in the first place if names were visible.

    Tea... the tea ritual would give participants a chance to take a deep breath and calm down before negotiating, or allow banal pleasantries before upsetting conversations, or just provides a norm-ing value in a strange setting; there's a social value in the stupid parts.

    Introductions? I can't see any added value.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:31 pm 
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    I have no particular preference for which side of the argument wins, but I'm not convinced by your argument. There are far better ones.

    Occasional Sage wrote:
    Right sure, but that ritual would never develop in the first place if names were visible.


    This is Erf. Rituals don't *develop*.

    Units are popped knowing how to behave, and that includes knowing any appropriate rituals.


    Quote:
    Tea... the tea ritual would give participants a chance to take a deep breath and calm down before negotiating, or allow banal pleasantries before upsetting conversations, or just provides a norm-ing value in a strange setting; there's a social value in the stupid parts.

    Introductions? I can't see any added value.


    But they have a value here on Earth.

    There's plenty of things in Erf which are only there for appearances - slaughterhouses where no slaugher actually happens, banks with shiny brand-new never-used empty vaults.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:20 pm 
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    Occasional Sage wrote:
    Beeskee wrote:
    Parson can see names with the glasses, he could see Jack's last name before he knew it. (Wanda seemingly only told him the first name) It doesn't look like Stanley can intuit names tho.


    That's gotta be rare, or even unique to Parson's glasses. Why else would people introduce themselves?


    I think it is. Either Stanley can't read, or nobody knows names without asking. I don't think any other choice is viable, and I think it's the latter.

    Of course, we don't know for certain without more details from the comic, but that is what keeps these debates alive and fun. :D


    Edit: There may be other magic items or artifacts which show names.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:53 am 
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    but titles are not visible, as far as I know, for ansom didn't knew that jillian was a princess.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:35 pm 
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    SteveMB wrote:
    effataigus wrote:
    Heh, perhaps Stanley, having come up from a commoner's background, can't read.

    That wouldn't explain why Maggie didn't know his name either.


    She did know it. She told Parson and he called Jack and addressed him by it.

    But it's quite certain that Stanley, at least can't see names. Remember his little ploy with Zhoppa.

    So perhaps there's more than one level of the See Stats ability. And Parson's glasses have Greater See Stats.

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