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 Post subject: TV's Heir
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:02 pm 
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Assuming TV lasts long enough to pop an heir, which as of now is uncertain, I had a couple thoughts about what that heir might be like, and couldn't find another thread about it to add to. Both of these probably are really good Signamancy, maybe even TOO good, but whatever.

Option 1. Look at TV's livery: :tv: I don't know if it's been said elsewhere, but that is pretty close to the Bat signal. It would be awesome if we got a Bruce Wayne in the story (or even a Damian, who might have the relationship to Caesar similar to what comic Damian has to the older Robins). Maybe he'd also be a caster, a Findamancer in the manner of the World's Greatest Detective.

Option 2. In respect to TV's "return" to Royal ideology, the heir could be named Mickey Velly, in reference to the Stupidworld author of a book about how to rule called the Prince. That would be someone for other players to keep an eye on (Parson and Charlie both have a chance of understanding his Signamancy) and might be an equal of Parson and Charlie, or at least on the level of King Tramennis.

But then again, the heir might never pop, and if it does it might give us one to many skilled player in the Erfworld Game of Sides.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:20 pm 
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    I think it is funny that Jack is partly Joker inspired and doesn't get along with TV. If there wasn't already a caster in the Magic Kingdom named Robin Gracie that had the Flying special (Flying Grayson), I'd say TV should pop a Carnymancer based on Dick.

    But rather than Batman, I think the heir could pop as Batwoman. TV's color scheme is black and red, which are Batwoman's colors rather than Batman's. Plus, the heir is Don King's child and will have his name. Batwoman's secret identity is Katherine Kane. It's a short leap to get to Katherine/Kate King. Honestly, I shocked it took me this long to come up with this idea, but I'm now convinced that nothing else makes sense.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:52 pm 
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    The heir is the offspring of Don King and Vanna. So it may combine their signamancy, the same way Albert is a mixture of Jillian and Vinnie.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:01 pm 
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    Omnimancer wrote:
    The heir is the offspring of Don King and Vanna. So it may combine their signamancy, the same way Albert is a mixture of Jillian and Vinnie.


    Maybe, but maybe not. Don started popping the new heir before Vanna showed up. Someone else suggested he/she might share Bea's Signamancy, since Don was in love with her.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:06 pm 
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    Omnimancer wrote:
    The heir is the offspring of Don King and Vanna. So it may combine their signamancy, the same way Albert is a mixture of Jillian and Vinnie.


    Probably.

    Or it could be a mix of Don King's and Queen Bea's. Either because that's who Don King cares about or because that's the woman he was closest to when production on the heir was put into motion.

    So far we only really have one real solid example of heir signamancy's relation to their ruler and their ruler's allies. We can't be sure it wasn't because Don King paid for Albert to be popped. Or simply because Vinny was at the top of the pile of Jillian's prospective suitors when production on Albert started/while he was popping. And, of course, it could just be a completely random coincidence.

    But, for my money, I'd say you have it right.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:50 pm 
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    Ansom took Albert's appearance as a sign that Jillian and Vinny were in love. Don and Vanna certainly weren't that. Slately loved Holly Shortcake, but none of his children resemble her. It's all very up in the air.

    But if the heir isn't Kate King, I'm going to be disappointed at the missed opportunity. I could see her dating Skyy.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:39 pm 
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    Merilynne wrote:
    Omnimancer wrote:
    The heir is the offspring of Don King and Vanna. So it may combine their signamancy, the same way Albert is a mixture of Jillian and Vinnie.


    Maybe, but maybe not. Don started popping the new heir before Vanna showed up. Someone else suggested he/she might share Bea's Signamancy, since Don was in love with her.


    After this most recent update, it makes me wonder if H-strings are what controls Erfworld parenting. Instead of two parents combining genetic material like on Earth, a ruler gets connected to someone they love by H-string, and that H-string carries information about the paramour to the potential heir to give them similar traits.

    It also makes me wonder what happens if a ruler has more than one romance. Could multiple partners all shape an heir together, if the ruler has an H-string to each one? TV's heir might be a three-way mingling of Don, Bea, and Vanna in that case.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:45 pm 
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    So a lot of people are saying the heir would be a mix of Don's and Vanna's signamancy, pointing to Albert as an example. Which I think will probably be right to an extent, but it's the reasoning people are using that confuses me. The heir is clearly stated to be Vanna's, and I think we can trust Shirley's word on it. And it should also be obvious to us readers why, even if Charlie doesn't get it: it's because Don and Vanna had nookie. Albert's signamancy is because Jillian and Vinny had nookie; Vinny is Albert's father. Just because none of the characters but Parson get how sexual reproduction works, and just because it's far outside the norm on Erfworld, doesn't mean it's not a part of it.

    To me, this means that the explanations that include romantic feelings between Jillian and Vinny (they had an emotional bond, but saying they were "in love" is a stretch. Jillian at least was clearly grieving/rebounding) or TV giving so much support to Faq to explain Albert are unnecessary. So the heir won't have some signamancy from Queen Bea, because as far as we know she and Don never had nookie. We know that the Erfworlders believe only rulers really have children (and maybe only restricted to royal heirs, since we don't have evidence of Overlords popping heirs) but that doesn't mean it's true, or that that is all there is to the mechanic.

    Albert's popping with features from his father as well as his ruler mother opened up some new possibilities. Maybe nookie isn't necessary to pop a unit, but when for example two regular infantry have nookie (which we know they do from back in book 2), the next time infantry spawn one or more will be their child with no one knowing it. Maybe Date-a-mancers could tell, but I doubt anyone else would. Another support for sexual reproduction happening in Erfworld that I can find is when Stanley tells the Juggles to "go ahead and breed tonight," as in produce more Juggle units, and in the picture the Juggles in the background are almost certainly having a wild orgy (it might just be a wild party if you ignore the subtext, but one shadow in the bottom left corner is definitely being fellated, and you can infer what some of the other shadows are up to from there). http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/143

    My overall point is- Sexual reproduction does happen in Erfworld, no H-strings required.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:00 am 
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    WannabeWierdomancer wrote:
    My overall point is- Sexual reproduction does happen in Erfworld, no H-strings required.

    We only just found out about H-strings. We have no idea if H-strings are involved or not.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:05 am 
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    Arrrrggghhhh :x

    Why do people insist that Vanna is somehow the heir's mother? Don began... began popping his heir before the Battle for Spacerock. I don't know if this is specifically the earliest mention, but in LIAB Text 3 Caesar is mulling over the situation and observed "When this new heir popped, he wasn't gonna have much left to think about inheriting." That was around Turn 75 AW, according to the Wiki.

    Then Vanna didn't show up to speed up the process until Hvs.tCF 157, around Turn 93 AW, 3 whole turns ago! So the heir was in the queue to pop at least 18 turns before the Duchess arrived.

    Sure, Shirley is considering the heir as Vanna's, but part of that is because of Shirley's "stories." As Charlie suggested, "...Shirley was performing a kind of Carnymancy. She was fitting the facts she knew into a storyline, and embellishing it for drama... But Shirley was doing some self-Stagemancy here, providing both her own narrative and her own details." She saw Vanna showing concern for the unpopped heir and decided, "you'd think it was hers or something." Shirley can't be considered a reliable source of information in this particular circumstance, in my opinion.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:02 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Slately loved Holly Shortcake, but none of his children resemble her.


    Are we sure of this ?

    Looking at Slately's sons that we have seen, Ansom and Trammenis and Ossomer, I wouldn't say that Ansom and Trammenis are exactly alike but they are both blonde and of average-ish height while Ossomer stands out as black haired and gigantic (ok he's supposed to be a reference to Superman).

    Ossomer has been noted to be the youngest of the 3 brothers.

    Ossomer gets along well with both Artemis and critically Ace.

    Artemis was being snubbed for both her campaign with Prince Forthewin (Ansom's predecessor as CW though we're not sure if direct predecessor) where she couldn't save him and for her disastrous attempt at seducing the then young Ansom.

    I think a big reason why Ossomer wouldn't hold these events against her is that he was poped after they happened.

    I think this also applies to Ace, Ossomer doesn't look down on him because he never knew Holly and thus doesn't compare Ace to her.

    This is all speculation of course but Ansom and Trammenis might be Slately + Holly while Ossomer might be from Slately alone.

    We don't know Slately's original hair color before he greyed out.

    We don't know his initial height before he grew squat and fat as he lamented.

    Granted Holy seems to have been a redhead, but that might be a wig or signamancy (which we know from Book 0 also covers make-up) as a caster she would have easy access to both.

    While her petite stature might have been what kept Ansom and Trammenis at normal heights unlike with Ossomer where she had no effect.

    Regarding the heir being Batwoman, she is a redhead and Queen Bea was a redhead so there might be synergy.

    Looking back at the chapter where Vanna slept with Don, the text again and again brings up Bea
    which imho is supposed to be foreshadowing.

    I mean for titans's sake Vanna had more of a rapport with Bill in the same chapter, in regards to her and Don Vanna only saw herself as delivering a letter in a way.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:07 am 
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    Hero of Shadows wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    Slately loved Holly Shortcake, but none of his children resemble her.


    Are we sure of this ?

    Looking at Slately's sons that we have seen, Ansom and Trammenis and Ossomer, I wouldn't say that Ansom and Trammenis are exactly alike but they are both blonde and of average-ish height while Ossomer stands out as black haired and gigantic (ok he's supposed to be a reference to Superman).

    Ossomer has been noted to be the youngest of the 3 brothers.

    Ossomer gets along well with both Artemis and critically Ace.

    Artemis was being snubbed for both her campaign with Prince Forthewin (Ansom's predecessor as CW though we're not sure if direct predecessor) where she couldn't save him and for her disastrous attempt at seducing the then young Ansom.

    I think a big reason why Ossomer wouldn't hold these events against her is that he was poped after they happened.

    I think this also applies to Ace, Ossomer doesn't look down on him because he never knew Holly and thus doesn't compare Ace to her.

    This is all speculation of course but Ansom and Trammenis might be Slately + Holly while Ossomer might be from Slately alone.

    We don't know Slately's original hair color before he greyed out.

    We don't know his initial height before he grew squat and fat as he lamented.

    Granted Holy seems to have been a redhead, but that might be a wig or signamancy (which we know from Book 0 also covers make-up) as a caster she would have easy access to both.

    While her petite stature might have been what kept Ansom and Trammenis at normal heights unlike with Ossomer where she had no effect.

    Regarding the heir being Batwoman, she is a redhead and Queen Bea was a redhead so there might be synergy.

    Looking back at the chapter where Vanna slept with Don, the text again and again brings up Bea
    which imho is supposed to be foreshadowing.

    I mean for titans's sake Vanna had more of a rapport with Bill in the same chapter, in regards to her and Don Vanna only saw herself as delivering a letter in a way.

    Batwoman's hair is a wig anyway.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:31 am 
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    Omnimancer wrote:
    The heir is the offspring of Don King and Vanna. So it may combine their signamancy, the same way Albert is a mixture of Jillian and Vinnie.


    well, the batgirl from that horrible batman movie was also a bit on the heavy side (after signing contract), but the movie killed the superhero franchise for a ton of years after that one was made. so that's bad signamancy!

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:56 am 
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    With Caesar as ruler and his nookieing of Bunny, Kaiser Bun is still on the table...

    I know I've used that before, but that wasn't in a dedicated TV's heir thread

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:32 am 
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    Ya know, I used to work in a bakery. I should have seen that one. ;D

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:04 pm 
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    I would love for the TV heir to pop, having both of their parents killed and become Batperson.
    But, do we really want to see ANOTHER ruler who goes afield? ANOTHER Jillian?

    What I'd love to see: The TV Heir looks exactly like Albert and we get a "The Prince and The Pauper" situation.

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:08 am 
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    If Transilvito gets a female heir, then I'd like to propose Flushing Queen.


    Transilvito is renowned for its water-closets, right?

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:05 am 
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    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    If Transilvito gets a female heir, then I'd like to propose Flushing Queen.
    Transilvito is renowned for its water-closets, right?


    Wasn't that the nickname for Fran Drescher's character in TV sitcom The Nanny?

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:33 am 
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    Burley wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    If Transilvito gets a female heir, then I'd like to propose Flushing Queen.
    Transilvito is renowned for its water-closets, right?


    Wasn't that the nickname for Fran Drescher's character in TV sitcom The Nanny?

    No, that was the name of the town in which Fran was working at a bridal shop*: Flushing, Queens**.


    *(this was before she became The Nanny.... I'm talking about the character, not the actor.)

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     Post subject: Re: TV's Heir
     Post Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:27 am 
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    What do you get if you cross Don King and Charlie[1]?

    Charlie Donald: the don's son from Small Time Gangster.

    Better still Charlie Donald was played Squizzy Taylor in Undertale Underbelly: Squizzy. So there could be a bit of Caesar "Squeezey" in there to.
    Plus with Bill out of commission, Transilvito could use another taylor


    [1]Since Vanna was on Charlie's clock when she was screwing Don.

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