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 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:03 pm 
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I perma-banned user zilfallon for his comments in this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13819&p=220148#p220148

He came close to a ban once before, and I warned him that the next time I saw him trying to fight the culture wars here, I would boot him.

If you are unclear about what I mean by "fighting the culture wars," it boils down to this. You may say anything you want about the comic. You can say the author is a secret Nazi, a sexist pig, a self-righteous libtard, or just a fool who has blindly swallowed the propaganda of your political enemies, whoever those may be. You can say whatever ridiculous thing you want about me or the characters.

What you may not do is use these forums as an ideological soapbox to throw bombs at other posters or at groups in society, particularly people you see as adhering to an ideology you oppose. There are plenty of places to fling poop, lots of available echo chambers to critique the behavior of people who have the wrong opinions™. You can shout your bumper sticker slogans on Twitter and Tumblr all you want. If you do that here, you are violating the One Rule: Don't Be A Dick.

I don't hand out warnings to be fair. Fairness is not the goal; a great fan community is. I give warnings because I don't want to lose people who make great contributions to the discussion. Everybody can be a dick sometimes. Most people can correct themselves and do it less, if you point it out. But some people just are dicks. They drive people away from the forums, and make things generally worse. Zilfallon was one of those, and he's not welcome here anymore.

Unlike on other forums, a warning from me doesn't mean "what you posted broke a rule." Whatever I told you it meant in the warning message, that's what it really meant. Remember that I took the time to write that message to you instead of writing more story. It literally means that I thought that writing to you about your problem behavior was more important for the future of Erfworld and its fans than writing more script, handling Kickstarter fulfillment, or any of the other million things I desperately need to do. You are being that big of a dick.

When I take time to give you a warning, it generally means I'm pretty convinced that the Erfworld community would be better off without you. (It is possible to reach this point with a single post.) The warning is just to give you a chance to 180 your bullshit and behave decently from now on. It's not strike 1. Your strikes already happened and you didn't know it.

So, please. If I give you a warning, take it seriously. I wrote the warning because I was trying to keep you here. Don't show me I wasted my time.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:18 pm 
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    I may not know what were the prior "culture wars posts" were. But I'm looking at that one right now.

    zilfallon is complaining that Jillian gets everything handed to her. This is a complaint that a lot of people have. Basically, to me, Jillian reads like a rail-roaded character. No matter what happens, no matter what she tries, her future is determined by a mean GM. Gee, that sounds *exactly like what Parson described his game as*.

    Jillian is being forced into a path that she would not have chosen if she knew. But probably she'd have a different unpleasant path. Well, when Parson arrived, GK was being forced into a death spiral; he did trick after trick, and the game/world cheated against him. He was going to die, until he pulled the unheard-of "uncroak a volcano". That was book 1. Book two was another "he was going to die, either with split forces, or in a fire", until he pulled another unbeatable trick out of his rear. Note that even here, the cheating world cut his forces apart (he managed to get something going), his forces refused to honor his "this is what we need to do" (promote someone on-site to get the bonus) (so he had to commit himself), and on top of that he has the whole "Silvia does X, Jack does Y, his own forces trapped himself" and pulls another lifesaver (move the capital).

    Jillian? She really tries, and does competently. Maybe not great. While Parson got backstabbed by Charlie in book 1, and more his own side than Charlie in book 2, here in book 3 Jillian was backstabbed by TV.

    Is there any fundamental difference between everything rigged against Parson/GK and against Jillian/FAQ? One thing: Parson has the ability to out-cheat a cheating system, Jillian does not.

    The result? Instead of Parson being forced along a line of fate, he is able to strike his own path. Jillian lacks that ability.

    zilfallon says, "Of course Jillian is fated to have everything without actually succeeding at anything by herself. Come on guys, hand over everything to Jillian, because she is Jillian!".

    Right? Wrong? Opinion? Doesn't matter. My personal opinion is that she is fated to be forced to hang in, unable to steer off the flowing river that is taking her towards a waterfall.

    What if you disagree with zilfallon? What if you think that ... (actually, we don't know if the user is a he or a she) zilfallon is just making this claim because "he" is a "sexist male"?

    All I see zilfallon doing here is trying to deflect that type of commentary before it happens. I've seen people assume that a female person posting with a "generic" name is actually a male (interestingly, the "generic" name can even include a non-english word/prefix for woman and still get mistaken for a male)

    zilfallon is clearly unhappy with the Jillian story. Fine.

    Culture wars? I'm re-reading your "one rule" post.
    Quote:
    Most often, I know you are being a dick when the whole thread contains other posters arguing against what you've said, and nobody is sticking up for it.

    There's a lot of anti-Jillian posts. Heck, there's a running gag about page 10 and her now.
    Quote:
    If you're here to participate and have fun with the other readers, then you're welcome to stay and play. If you post to cause trouble and get attention, you're gone. So don't be a dick.

    Normally I might not respond to people's posts for the simple rule of "don't feed trolls, don't turn a forum discussion into a war between posters".

    I learned a while back not to assume malice when bad judgement/bad day/ignorance/different culture can be the answer. In that post, I see nothing more than what might just be posting at the end of a bad day, and responding to trouble in life with just an attempt to pre-respond, based on how that day went.

    You want people to stand up for zilfallon? Ok.
    Consider this me standing up for Zil. One of many people complaining that Jillian's continued living is a sign of bad writing. After all, look at how many times unexplained Fate has kept her alive, or direct intervention by Charlie, etc. -- clearly, she is a "marry sue" that can't fail, right?

    I don't see her as that. I see her as a "failed protagonist" (in the same way that Jupiter is a failed star -- not that she is a protagonist that failed her role, but she is someone that could have been a protagonist and failed to become one.) Fated to always be a second stringer mucking things up for others.

    Now, is that kind of Fate good writing? Good question. But it's *exactly how Parson's game against his players was designed*.

    _________________
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    It really speaks to how awful RVC's plan is that immolating himself first would improve the odds of success.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:32 pm 
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    Look at the posts that followed Zilfallon's on the same page. That's what Rob's talking about. Not Jillian.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:43 pm 
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    All I see are people preemptively making fun of the accusations of sexism that have been thrown at those who don't like Jillian in the past. Personally I think the people who make those accusations are more at fault than those who just defend themselves against them, and neither is reason for a ban, but it's not my call, so... *shrugs*

    I always enjoyed Zilfallon's posts; they tended to be blunt and sometimes sarcastic, and I didn't always agree with them, but I never felt they were a dick to anyone.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:34 pm 
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    @keybounce It had literally nothing to do with what he said about Jillian, or any of the points you're making there.

    I'd warned him in the past not to try and spark a non-sequitur debate about political correctness in a Reactions thread. I specifically told him by PM that the next time he did that, I would ban him. He did it. It began derailing the thread immediately (see the followup posts about racism and fat shaming). I banned him.

    (For the record, it doesn't have anything to do with it being an anti-PC sentiment. I tell the same thing to the social justice Tumblrina types. Not here. In the Erfworld forums, we have reasonable, respectful discussions and disagreements. Namecalling battles between competing victim narratives can be fought somewhere else.)

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     Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:49 pm 
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    Yeah, he started the sexism discussion in that thread after an explicit call out not to do that or he would get banned.

    He did. He got banned.

    End of.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:50 pm 
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    I prefer not having to fight a (not necessarily culture) war; if not possible, I prefer fighting it effectively. When I saw zilfallon's post, I thought "oh boy, bad call, now it's going to start again".
    Spoiler: show
    Also: gotta ready my folder of smug anime girls.
    Image


    I, too, viewed it as sarcastic, Jillian-oriented and not really banworthy. Not that it matters.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:03 pm 
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    The point is not that post, standing alone, which any number of folks could have made.

    The point is that he disregarded a very explicit warning. So, good ban, thanks.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:13 pm 
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    I'm uncertain about the desirability of going straight from warning to permanent ban, as opposed to temporary - regardless of whether it's a question of "fair" or "good community". Other than that, seems reasonable.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:35 pm 
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    I think that there are basically two problems here, one of which matters and the other of which really doesn't.

    The fact that there is a larger cultural war between feminists and everyone else really doesn't matter. It was uncouth of zilfallon to try and capitalize on that conflict to try and manufacture immunity to criticism of the premise that Jillian isn't a fully integrated part of the narrative, it reminds us of the ugliness that the larger cultural war inspires and directs, but that ugliness would exist without the larger cultural war. People can choose to notice it or not, and how they'll react.

    The thing that matters is that the form of this ban dumped a tanker of fuel on the fire of "Jillian Sue" rage...or maybe breached a pipeline under it. A normal ban (like a month, right?) would have been understandable and should have deferred the issue till further events render the objections to the current update less relevant. But the perma-ban feeds into the suspicion that Jillian really is some kind of Creator's Pet rather than a character with deep background and plot connections to many major character events and dramatic conflicts in the story.

    The unfortunate reality is that expressions of dislike of Jillian (understandable in that Jillian was always supposed to be a deeply flawed character) inspired a lot of forum members to resort to the discreditable tactic of claiming that everyone who didn't worship Jillian was a cave-dwelling animal with no understanding of the difference between consensual and non-consensual reproduction...or worse. This tactic, which has largely been discredited with the severe lack of consistent concern of those using it about social issues which serve to actually exacerbate that specific problem, inspires some hostility which is not always expressed in the most literate manner.

    Of course I abhor illiteracy. But burning illiterates at the stake isn't a real answer...it just fosters a hatred of literacy. I would go so far as to call it an illiterate response to the problem.

    The real issue is whether a perma-ban is actually more effort-effective for a given effect in controlling the level of illiteracy which occurs. I worry both that it is less effective than a month-ban and that it is more effort. However, I have no real idea how much effort is involved in a perma-ban as opposed to a month-ban.

    Whether is it more or less effective is arguable, though my sense is that it probably has had a worse effect than a month-ban. A perma-ban lends credence to the ridiculous notion (no matter which side first established it) that Jillian serves as some sort of avatar or symbol of feminism and that responding to her character development in that light isn't reprehensibly stupid. A month-ban might have had some similar tendency, but to a lesser degree.

    I cannot of course speak for the author of any members of the creative team, but I wish to assert as my own opinion that Jillian does not have anything to do with feminism, and everyone (on either side) acting as if she does merely makes themselves and their views appear odiously devoid of the capacity for critical thought. Jillian is a long-standing element of Erfworld, and her profound and complex relationship to Wanda (arguably the main character) and other important characters in Erfworld is readily apparent even if the full details of the back-story remain to be completely unveiled.

    Erfworld contains many themes that could be interpreted as social commentary, for instance, the argument over whether decrypted are "real people" deserving of the same rights as others leads to so many possible contentious debates as to make choosing one issue for it to symbolize as difficult as it is unwise. We can and do have debates over whether the decrypted should be treated like real people without comparing them to gays, or prenatal infants, or Muslims/Christians/Jews/etc., or whatever...and that's as it should be. The decrypted are their own thing in Erfworld, they are not a mere symbol of any particular argument over the essential humanity of groups in either Stupidworld or our world.

    Jillian, love her or hate her, is her own character in Erfworld. She's not something ginned up to make a commentary about feminism (first, third, or any other wave thereof), and if she were I'd have to rate her as a very confused representation of what anyone thinks feminism is. Erfworld itself, as a milieu in which reproduction does not have anything to do with sex roles and such sexual dimorphism as even exists is merely decorative rather than having any functional role, is a far more profound (and just as ambiguous, if one had to parse it) commentary on feminism.

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     Post Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:33 am 
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    I'm just surprised that someone who's been here as long as Zilfallon, and with a post count as high as his (and not higher) would be banned now and not sooner. (Makes a comparison between post counts), oh.. right.... Moving on :D

    edit: Hadn't initially intended my opening statement as snark. It only came out that way once I looked at Zilf's profile and started doing math. Again, moving on. (Don't do math, kids).
    keybounce wrote:
    Spoiler: show
    I may not know what were the prior "culture wars posts" were. But I'm looking at that one right now.

    zilfallon is complaining that Jillian gets everything handed to her. This is a complaint that a lot of people have. Basically, to me, Jillian reads like a rail-roaded character. No matter what happens, no matter what she tries, her future is determined by a mean GM. Gee, that sounds *exactly like what Parson described his game as*.

    Jillian is being forced into a path that she would not have chosen if she knew. But probably she'd have a different unpleasant path. Well, when Parson arrived, GK was being forced into a death spiral; he did trick after trick, and the game/world cheated against him. He was going to die, until he pulled the unheard-of "uncroak a volcano". That was book 1. Book two was another "he was going to die, either with split forces, or in a fire", until he pulled another unbeatable trick out of his rear. Note that even here, the cheating world cut his forces apart (he managed to get something going), his forces refused to honor his "this is what we need to do" (promote someone on-site to get the bonus) (so he had to commit himself), and on top of that he has the whole "Silvia does X, Jack does Y, his own forces trapped himself" and pulls another lifesaver (move the capital).

    Jillian? She really tries, and does competently. Maybe not great. While Parson got backstabbed by Charlie in book 1, and more his own side than Charlie in book 2, here in book 3 Jillian was backstabbed by TV.

    Is there any fundamental difference between everything rigged against Parson/GK and against Jillian/FAQ? One thing: Parson has the ability to out-cheat a cheating system, Jillian does not.

    The result? Instead of Parson being forced along a line of fate, he is able to strike his own path. Jillian lacks that ability.

    zilfallon says, "Of course Jillian is fated to have everything without actually succeeding at anything by herself. Come on guys, hand over everything to Jillian, because she is Jillian!".

    Right? Wrong? Opinion? Doesn't matter. My personal opinion is that she is fated to be forced to hang in, unable to steer off the flowing river that is taking her towards a waterfall.

    What if you disagree with zilfallon? What if you think that ... (actually, we don't know if the user is a he or a she) zilfallon is just making this claim because "he" is a "sexist male"?

    All I see zilfallon doing here is trying to deflect that type of commentary before it happens. I've seen people assume that a female person posting with a "generic" name is actually a male (interestingly, the "generic" name can even include a non-english word/prefix for woman and still get mistaken for a male)


    Post number one and this thread has already devolved into a topic about Jillian.

    edit 2: I think we should accept it as reality, now, that all universes revolve around Jilian
    keybounce wrote:
    zilfallon is clearly unhappy with the Jillian story. Fine.

    Culture wars? I'm re-reading your "one rule" post.
    Quote:
    Most often, I know you are being a dick when the whole thread contains other posters arguing against what you've said, and nobody is sticking up for it.

    There's a lot of anti-Jillian posts. Heck, there's a running gag about page 10 and her now.

    Rats. You beat me to referencing the gag.

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     Post Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:28 pm 
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    Only because I *finally* got the first response to Rob :-)

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    It really speaks to how awful RVC's plan is that immolating himself first would improve the odds of success.

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     Post Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:14 pm 
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    keybounce wrote:
    I may not know what were the prior "culture wars posts" were. But I'm looking at that one right now.

    zilfallon is complaining that Jillian gets everything handed to her.
    Okay, since I'm replying to an element of this post, I might as well reiterate a distinction that I invoked but didn't apply as a direct response. The complaints about Jillian are not "culture wars posts", they are Erfworld forum wars posts. I'm frankly firmly in the Jillian = Evil Incarnate camp until such time (and it looks to be closing in) as she has a Heel Face turn, preferably via Death = Redemption. Just from a narrative perspective the whole "Jillian gets decrypted" thing has been so heavily foreshadowed I'd have a real hard time accepting anything else (doesn't mean it can't be done, Rob has pulled off some amazing twists before and I've generally loved them). The "culture wars" issue is feminism, which has nothing to do with Jillian and whoever brought it up first (and I was under the impression that it was promoters of 'feminism' of some stripe or other who first made this ridiculous connection, but really I don't care, it was just another reason it took me so long to ever bother with the forums).
    keybounce wrote:
    What if you disagree with zilfallon? What if you think that ... (actually, we don't know if the user is a he or a she) zilfallon is just making this claim because "he" is a "sexist male"?
    Here's the thing, I agree that it's not irrelevant who started it, but really at this point it was zilfallon bringing it up again for the perfectly discreditable reason that the argument defending Jillian because 'feminism' had already been throughly beaten by people seeing it as ridiculous with some help from people throughly tired of "because 'feminism'" arguments. I didn't really follow that saga closely because frankly it bores me, but it has been a while since there were many people seriously arguing that Jillian is only being hated because she happens to be female. Whatever put a stop to that, it had been stopped for a while...and then zilfallon decides to restart it.

    Not cool.
    keybounce wrote:
    Culture wars? I'm re-reading your "one rule" post.
    Quote:
    Most often, I know you are being a dick when the whole thread contains other posters arguing against what you've said, and nobody is sticking up for it.
    Okay, this is what I was really replying to here, so pay attention.
    balder wrote:
    "Being a dick" is nothing but "making the forums worse for everyone else." That's the only measure we use.
    Yes, when you are the only person arguing a given perspective or theory (and nobody tips you for it), that is a possible indicator that you are making the forums worse for everyone. Me, I trust my judgment of what the silent wish to say enough that I don't worry about being the only visible proponent of an idea. On the other hand I sometimes chip in to make it known that I don't regard someone as being beyond the pale for advancing an idiosyncratic reading even if I don't agree with it or even find it particularly valuable...as long as it's harmless. But someone can be making the forums worse for everyone even if they have a lot of people supporting them in that activity. Trolls usually work alone, that's all Baldur was saying there. I've seen them work in packs, sometimes very large packs, and the frightening thing is how many 'normal' people will join a pack of trolls once they appear to be in the local majority. It wasn't wrong to respond to that quickly and decisively (even if I worry that the response itself was poorly calibrated).

    I've enjoyed many of zilfallon's comments too (or at least I assume I have), but I also respect the decision to respond swiftly to a threat of pack trolling. And I respect what Rob says.
    balder wrote:
    Remember that I took the time to write that message to you instead of writing more story. It literally means that I thought that writing to you about your problem behavior was more important for the future of Erfworld and its fans than writing more script, handling Kickstarter fulfillment, or any of the other million things I desperately need to do. You are being that big of a dick.
    I can and do privately disagree with Rob about a lot of things, and that probably includes a lot of 'social issues'. But sabotaging his work over that kind of disagreement isn't cool. I have young relatives, and for some of them Erfworld is definitely below the threshold of "child-friendly" that's been established by their parents, and I support them by not inviting their children to access the comic. And Rob respects that. Rob has a forum for fans of the comic which is hosted on his site, and I respect his efforts to keep it friendly for his fans.

    In this case, I'm trying to support that effort by making what I believe to be a helpful clarification (keeping in mind that I have no basis for claiming deep insight into what Rob really means) between hating on Jillian and an overt attempt to resurrect the discreditable argument in which Jillian is somehow symbolic or representative of "all women"/'feminism' or political correctness of any stripe. Rob may not need or even want the 'support' I'm offering, it may be misguided or counterproductive. But I'm not doing this in an attempt to undermine his freedom to determine how best to accommodate Erfworld fans on his site.

    I hope that zilfallon comes to understand and express that it was inappropriate to try and restart something Baldur specifically requested not be restarted on this forum. I hope that the perma-ban is eventually lifted. I hope these independently of one another, even while recognizing that as far as Baldur is concerned they probably are directly linked. But if I consider the effect on the forum if they were linked in the opposite direction, such that participate here we all had to agree with a laundry list of positions on social issues, I'm glad of the effort to shut down certain contentious culture war debates that just interfere with people enjoying the comic itself without reference to what it "says" about contemporary politics in our world.

    Frankly, I've been in a debate or two where I would just as soon someone had said "this has nothing to do with the comic, take it to some other site." Not because I was 'losing' and needed my opponents silenced (and not because I was 'winning' either), but just because the fact that I have a life outside of being a fan of the comic doesn't mean I don't want to sometimes just be a fan of the comic.

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     Post Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:33 pm 
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    balder wrote:
    What you may not do is use these forums as an ideological soapbox to throw bombs at other posters or at groups in society, particularly people you see as adhering to an ideology you oppose.

    balder wrote:
    I tell the same thing to the social justice Tumblrina types.

    Image

    Couldn't even follow your own rule for a single post. Good job. :roll:

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     Post Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:49 pm 
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    Most people don't include ideologically-based groups when talking about stuff like this, it's almost always race, gender, etc

    So vocally criticizing fascists, Communists, "social justice Tumblrinas" or the various conservative groups those same "Tumblrinas" might oppose (depending on one's ideological bent), would generally be considered fair game.

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     Post Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:45 pm 
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    Just wanted to say "Hi everyone" and that I'm still enjoying Erfworld. Sucks that some people take a turn for the toxic when they read something that rubs them the wrong way (over not-yet-finalized fiction no less!).

    Still with you captain.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:21 am 
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    balder wrote:
    (For the record, it doesn't have anything to do with it being an anti-PC sentiment. I tell the same thing to the social justice Tumblrina types. Not here. In the Erfworld forums, we have reasonable, respectful discussions and disagreements. Namecalling battles between competing victim narratives can be fought somewhere else.)
    Okay, to be fair, while calling people who want to make Erfworld about PC rather than anti-PC activism "Tumblrina types" isn't abjectly worshipful, it's hardly an attack on anyone that doesn't choose to define themselves that way, let alone a bomb.

    Your pretended inability to understand this doesn't make Rob a hypocrite.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:33 am 
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    It's weird to think you'd been popped here for less than a month when Incident 242 happened, ChunLing. A lot of shit happened back then.

    Slanders were thrown, and fires were tarred. I never got the reference to that random southern song: I just found it funny how Claud went to the effort of clothing the pitch golem (I suppose Claud didn't have much to expect in regards to spending juice).

    Looking back, I'm no longer the man that would devote two pages of text to explain why Bill is Geppeto. I've recognised the abnormally long time it takes for me to write suchlong winded posts, and I've become addicted to tips. Not to confirm or deny that I've changed since April (my introspection is a last-in last-out system)

    When shit gets politically charged, Chun says some things with a degree of earnesty that I can't muster. Things that'd look like I was being contrarian for contrarian sake coming from my mouth. So even if I do have something to say (or not), I can trust him to start golfing in the right alley. spoiler tagged for text added in editing:
    Spoiler: show
    I have less need to dirty my hands with such discource. But it also means I get lazy, which also happens when I know that someone will eventually get to the *correct conclusion* during a discussion on Erfly principles.


    .
    I guess Rob has a point in that when a topic starts to get controversial (like the Tar Baby, and Jillian), I tend to tune out some of the posts, hoping that someone would divert the topic back to a more Erfly course. Outside of the Reactions threads I recall (seemingly) going ballistic in the Not-Z Tribe thread. I tolerated the first time the discussion deviated into the realm of "Are the Nazi's ok to be made fun of?" until the topic went back on track (in a civil manner, no thanks to me), but the second the topic veared back into the realm of "Hitler shouldn't be in Erfworld": That's when I got mad. I just wanted to make dumb puns about Nazis, German actors, and Dragon Ball Z. Such discussions seemed to kill the mood for me (a thread has to flow right. This entire current post all started when I noticed that Chun was the last person to post in this topic).

    I guess a major trigger button for me (in terms of tuning out) are discussions on whether something should be in Erfworld. Partly because by the time we have those discussions, said thing already is Erfworld: even the Not-Zs, who exist only in fanon. I'd much rather discus the uh implications of... and now my Vyvanse has worn off. I'm sure I had a point there somewhere.

    Anyways, to argue from absurdium: Anyone that doesn't like Jillian's actions in the story should have made their case before she was introduced in Book 1 Page 7.


    edit: On rereflection: I still am the type to make long-winded Bill posts. Just need a nieche to write. I'm tempted to delete this comment in an hour so I don't get banned for derailing this thread with my introspection. edit 2: but then again I just don't want all this typing to go to waste.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:37 am 
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    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Outside of the Reactions threads I recall (seemingly) going ballistic in the Not-Z Tribe thread. I tolerated the first time the discussion deviated into the realm of "Are the Nazi's ok to be made fun of?" until the topic went back on track (in a civil manner, no thanks to me), but the second the topic veared back into the realm of "Hitler shouldn't be in Erfworld": That's when I got mad. I just wanted to make dumb puns about Nazis, German actors, and Dragon Ball Z. Such discussions seemed to kill the mood for me (a thread has to flow right. This entire current post all started when I noticed that Chun was the last person to post in this topic).

    I guess a major trigger button for me (in terms of tuning out) are discussions on whether something should be in Erfworld. Partly because by the time we have those discussions, said thing already is Erfworld: even the Not-Zs, who exist only in fanon.


    To be fair, my problem wasn't "Are the Nazi's ok to be made fun of?" it was more along the lines of making sure that the conversation wasn't rooted in "Hey, do you know who were awesome? Those Nazis. Those fellas really knew how to throw a parade." Because for some reason that is a legitimate worry now.

    I am legitimately sorry that I threw off the thread's groove and your fun, but I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a burgeoning sect of white-nationalistic Erfworlders. As soon as it was stated that was not the case, I backed off.

    But, again, sorry that it interrupted the fun (100% not being sarcastic. I wholly apologize).

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     Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:04 pm 
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    rstoffel wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Outside of the Reactions threads I recall (seemingly) going ballistic in the Not-Z Tribe thread. I tolerated the first time the discussion deviated into the realm of "Are the Nazi's ok to be made fun of?" until the topic went back on track (in a civil manner, no thanks to me), but the second the topic veared back into the realm of "Hitler shouldn't be in Erfworld": That's when I got mad. I just wanted to make dumb puns about Nazis, German actors, and Dragon Ball Z. Such discussions seemed to kill the mood for me (a thread has to flow right. This entire current post all started when I noticed that Chun was the last person to post in this topic).

    I guess a major trigger button for me (in terms of tuning out) are discussions on whether something should be in Erfworld. Partly because by the time we have those discussions, said thing already is Erfworld: even the Not-Zs, who exist only in fanon.


    To be fair, my problem wasn't "Are the Nazi's ok to be made fun of?" it was more along the lines of making sure that the conversation wasn't rooted in "Hey, do you know who were awesome? Those Nazis. Those fellas really knew how to throw a parade." Because for some reason that is a legitimate worry now.

    I am legitimately sorry that I threw off the thread's groove and your fun, but I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a burgeoning sect of white-nationalistic Erfworlders. As soon as it was stated that was not the case, I backed off.

    But, again, sorry that it interrupted the fun (100% not being sarcastic. I wholly apologize).

    In hind-sight my rage was mis-placed. Tarvok had asked for your political stance on Charlie Chaplin*. As much as I enjoyed certain liberties back then for not being on such a short leash,
    getting pissed off at someone for answering a question was probably a line somewhere.

    *I just had to include the word "political" to make that sentence even rarer.

    One thing I've learnt from today's introspection on the importance of flow is that I am a forgive and forget kind of person (and never "OR") in that if I have forgotten then I've forgiven. If I were to reread your appologia (no offence) my heart would think differently to my logos. <Insert snarky line about how "Sometimes the best way to get someone to forgive you is to give them a blow to the back of the head, or mead".> I had initially planned to be less meta with that line but due to my lack of mental energy this hour, the earlier section of this paragraph didn't go off as I planned.

    And now, I am in an awkard position where I need to sleep, yet I don't want to not not submit this else I look bad for giving Rusty here the cold shoulder, yet if I submit now it looks like I left on a sour note. Ah well, catch 22.

    Wait, if I'm so tired, how can I catch 22?

    Oh, right, because I'm 23.

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