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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:55 am 
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C9H20 wrote:
I personally feel she is just handed so many wins she doesn't deserve. Charlie has saved her ass from failure how many times now? Presumably this is due to the contract they signed but still it doesn't feel satisfying to have all these wins when by her own merit she'd be dead long ago.

But honestly? I was okay with it, her story was tolerable. Until recently when she got the prophecy that Wanda will serve her, that was just too fucking much.

Handed wins by Charlie. The one person who has continued interest in Jillian's well-being. And Don, but Don wanted allies to protect Transylvito flanks.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:32 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins
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    I'll break it down as I see it.

    1. Competence.

    She isn't very competent at what she is supposed to be competent at.

    I'll agree that the Dwagon incident in the first book is unfortunate because it makes her look even worse than she is when we really didn't understand the rules of Erfworld. However one of the reasons a lot of people assume she is incompetent without really looking at it very hard is because we're essentially told she is incompetent and she confirms it with Ansom asking her how many times she has been captured in the campaign so far. -

    Now potentially this might be because she really wants to have sex with Wanda but we're left with a choice here is she incompetent as a commander because she is horny or is she just incompetent.

    The rest of the book isn't great for her either she gets some of her troops blown up by Wanda by flying them right next to the tower, she misses catching Jack and she even needs saved by Ansom when she decides to break Wanda's spell and save Ansom.

    She doesn't get a single win in the whole of Book 1.

    Book 2 isn't much better in terms of demonstrating her competence as a commander she is essentially bank-rolled to her armies strength rather than demonstrating any ability to obtain it otherwise and she exits the battlefield without evidencing any real tactical ability. Now in fairness I don't think she was wrong to exit the battlefield with her armies strength in tact considering who her neighbours are and that she'd already crippled GK by executing Charlie's plan but it doesn't give us a good example of her ability just those around her.

    Book 3 is a big failure at the start, she loses her capital and what could have been Rob's opportunity to show us what a tactical bad-ass she is by taking GK the focal point of a whole book he decides to have Charlie do some very dubious contract shenanigans to give her the instant-win guns and then emphasises in the battle description how she essentially abused her contract immunity to make an easy fight even easier.

    I wont focus too much on her then losing said advantage due to Marie because I don't think that proves a lot other than Marie was a total bad ass before she came down with a bad case of the Jillian which seems to effect a lot of characters in the stories judgement.

    In essence she isn't a very competent commander. Book 0 is even worse for her but I wont count it too much here because it isn't a finished story yet but her judgement is awful and one of the few things we learn about her before she gets captured is how she likes to have sex with her subordinates and then has difficulty managing them afterwards.

    I'll touch on this point later but it is worth pointing out. Rob knows how to write competent commanders Caesar's battle to retake Chocula, Ansom pulling out Archon dance numbers, all of the backer stories etc. Jillian has never in all four books (that she has considerable screen time in) ever had an unqualified victory even when she roflstomped that undefended GK city after she left Jetstone she still nearly died by eating Green Dwagon fumes.

    So in essence she is one of the least able commanders we see in the story this is a bad thing because unlike Stanley who I feel is close to her competence level her story isn't comedic or about becoming a better person in fact Jillian seems to never ever feel the ramifications of her actions nor has she seemed to improve in four books.

    In a lot of ways she is the anti-Stanley.

    2. Romance

    Her romance plots are boring, uninteresting and shallow. At times I have questioned Rob's ability to write romance that isn't superficial and moronic however I feel I have had this questioned answered by his much more indepth, meaningful, interesting and realistic portrayals of Bunny and Caesar along with Parson and Maggie their relationships (or lack thereof) are an actual joy to read.

    The love triangle between Wanda, Ansom and Jillian is just uninteresting and shallow but the problem is a lot Book 1 and 2 revolve around it and key plot points are because of it. The thing that hurts Jillian here is that Wanda and Ansom both have a lot more to their characters in those books so are much more fleshed out and developed - Ansom is leading the war in Book 1 and has an interesting arc in Book 2 when he confronts his family and Wanda is well Wanda she is integral to Parson's understanding of the world in Book 1 and she is freaking Erf-Jesus in Book 2.

    Jillian by contrast has an undeveloped and not really coherent revenge motivation which she then abandons for her other obsession sexing Ansom. In fact funnily enough she has the same character arc in both books 1&2 - she abandons Wanda to be with Ansom. I didn't care the first time, I still don't care the second.

    Now again I'll touch on this point again - Rob can write coherent and decent love stories and has even lampshaded how shallow her relationship with Ansom in Book 1 was when Ansom pretty much admits that to Jack. He has chosen to write Jillian as a crap romantic interest.

    3. Daddy Issues

    Her tragic backstory isn't very tragic. In fact it seems to have let her do exactly what she wants but now wants revenge for something she didn't really want to have is the only motivation we currently have for why she doesn't just pop some Megalo's fill her purse with Charlie's money and fly away.

    She even got FAQ back the thing that Stanley took off her in the first place and she clearly wasn't that fussed about it. It just makes very little sense why she hates Stanley so much given the context of Erfworld and considering the relationship she had with her father and when that seems to be her primary motivation for being in the mix it seems to push the boundaries of what is believable.

    She has no interesting perspective to add to Erfworld via her world view. Wanda bring fatalism, Stanley - Egomania, Trem - a better Royal world, Caesar - effective leadership for his side etc.
    Jillian - uh stabby stab stab cus hate nasty man Stanley?

    4. The opportunity cost.

    Every time she is on the screen a more interesting and well written character is not on the screen. A good story is finite and every page matters when Rob chooses to use Jillian as his vehicle for whatever he needs her for he is picking one of his worse characters at the expense of a better one.

    5. No character arc

    She literally doesn't have one. Over the course of four books she doesn't like mind control now that is pretty much the sum of her development. I mean I don't think it would take a lot of characters any books of screen time to not be fond of mind control.

    6. I think Rob hates her.

    Honestly when you look at Erfworld as a whole it is a well written and competent narrative and all the things I have called Jillian out for he writes other characters competently that demonstrate it isn't a deficiency in his writing style but rather a stylistic choice for Jillian.

    He can write competent commanders, he can write interesting love stories, he can write characters with interesting and challenging world views etc. He just chooses not to with Jillian even when Albert is born and he messes up by killing an FAQ troop it is Vinny Rob chooses to give Albert guidance and look like an even cooler dude.

    Did Vinny the coolest of the cool need another opportunity to look cool? Why not give it to Jillian why not develop her arc and contrast her relationship with her son against the one she had with her father. I know Rob has the ability to do that but he didn't he instead chose to make her look uninterested in her son and keep her in this character stasis.

    7. Homeless.

    She has no defined place - she isn't a protagonist apart from when she is in Book 0 and she isn't really an independent antagonist she is in essence just a wing of Charlie's army (maybe until she isn't?) I like that I think what we're getting is a Jillian versus Stanley battle because they're both pretty stupid so it seems like a fair fight.

    8. Fate entwined.

    Fate is a really controversial part of the story and isn't always used well. Jillian inherently is linked to this concept so that puts even more negativity around her character as she is intertwined with Fate and should have died a long time ago without it.

    I could go on but I wont for now but that is a brief overview for why I don't really like Jillian a lot.

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     Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:29 am 
    Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:44 pm
    Posts: 60
    CDS wrote:
    She has no interesting perspective to add to Erfworld via her world view. Wanda bring fatalism, Stanley - Egomania, Trem - a better Royal world, Caesar - effective leadership for his side etc.
    Jillian - uh stabby stab stab cus hate nasty man Stanley?

    I agree with everything you've said here.
    But Jillian does have a clear world view, a love of war and hate of peace. She just doesn't have the presence of mind to realize and embrace it.

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