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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:15 pm 
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Anomynous 167 wrote:
While Achons aren't humanoid, that doesn't mean they can't be promoted to warlords. Goblins can. Charlie just chooses not to (since the Archons would then be able to see his treasuries)

Citation needed.

There has never been an instance of Gobwins being made into warlords within the pages of the comic. Promoted to heavy, yes. Promoted to knight, yes. But we've never seen a natural ally be a warlord. And as far as we know, Archons are intrinsically knights. We are told that they are knight units, so that should mean that they can't be anything else.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:33 pm 
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    Omnimancer wrote:
    As for "taming" vs "brainwashing", I'd say that nearly every unit in Erfworld is brainwashed. They all have Loyalty and Duty influencing their actions. It's one of the things that really freaks Parson out in book 1 when he considers how his own free will may have been corrupted. And we've seen rulers that mind control their subjects but treat them well and respect their opinion, for example the way Jillian appointed turnamancy altered Duncan as chief of Faq. It's a definite moral gray area.


    It's not that weird when you think about it "Loyalty" and "Duty" are a replacement for the years of propaganda you go through as a child, they have no childhood so they just get all of that in one jolt when popped.

    Also Turnamancy turning isn't mind control it's explicitly straight convincing via bog standard Charisma/Manipulation by Vanna's description.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:09 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    While Achons aren't humanoid, that doesn't mean they can't be promoted to warlords. Goblins can. Charlie just chooses not to (since the Archons would then be able to see his treasuries)

    Citation needed.

    There has never been an instance of Gobwins being made into warlords within the pages of the comic. Promoted to heavy, yes. Promoted to knight, yes. But we've never seen a natural ally be a warlord. And as far as we know, Archons are intrinsically knights. We are told that they are knight units, so that should mean that they can't be anything else.

    Yeah, I'm not sure where I read it. Think it was second-hand information with someone siting the glossary of one of the printed books, which listed what gobwins could be promoted to. Don't own it myself so I can't verify.

    Anyways, before reading that lost secondary source, way back before you had drummed into me that Gobwins can't be warlords, I was of the view that all natural allies could be promoted into warlords, it is just that most folk know that it would be too dangerous to make those promotions. Should a Natural Ally ever get a warlord, then they have a purse (which can store schmuckers). With a purse a tribe can grow big-enough, independant of a side, to whether bad days. And with a warlord, they'll be able to take control of Capital Cities. And then you've got a Natural Ally who is also a Capital Side.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:00 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Citation needed.

    There has never been an instance of Gobwins being made into warlords within the pages of the comic. Promoted to heavy, yes. Promoted to knight, yes. But we've never seen a natural ally be a warlord. And as far as we know, Archons are intrinsically knights. We are told that they are knight units, so that should mean that they can't be anything else.


    They can become chiefs. Vurp became one due to him being the last surviving hobgobwin. It's been shown that chiefs have power over the rest of the tribe, so they seem able to issue commands. They are also the ones that seem to control what sort of items gems are converted into. They are the ones that decide if they want to pop more units. We also know that scout units can transmit thoughts directly into the chief's head, allowing him to know what they see, as long as they don't go to far away.

    While we don't know if chiefs have leadership. It's not unreasonable to say that a chief is some sort of warlord equivalent.

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    Last edited by tomaO2 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:24 am 
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    tomaO2 wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    While Achons aren't humanoid, that doesn't mean they can't be promoted to warlords. Goblins can. Charlie just chooses not to (since the Archons would then be able to see his treasuries)

    Citation needed.

    There has never been an instance of Gobwins being made into warlords within the pages of the comic. Promoted to heavy, yes. Promoted to knight, yes. But we've never seen a natural ally be a warlord. And as far as we know, Archons are intrinsically knights. We are told that they are knight units, so that should mean that they can't be anything else.


    They can become chiefs. Vurp became one due to him being the last surviving hobgobwin. It's been shown that chiefs have power over the rest of the tribe, so they seem able to issue commands. They are also the ones that seem to control what sort of items gems are converted into. They are the ones that decide if they want to pop more units. We also know that scout units can transmit thoughts directly into the chief's head, allowing him to know what they see, as long as they don't go to far away.

    While we don't know if chiefs have leadership. It's not unreasonable to say that a chief is some sort of warlord equivalent.

    It is unreasonable to say that because natural allies have a warlord equivalent, regular units like archons must as well. Natural allies are divorced from a typical side structure and need an internal leadership system to control the conditions of alliance. As sided units, archons need this no more than twolls.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:26 pm 
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    Charlie applies a bonus to all his Archons that seems to mirror the math of a CWL Bonus. If his "Dish Bonus" works the same way as Wanda's, then it could stack on top of a CWL Bonus, but since 99% of sides in the world don't have this special bonus, Charlie is still on-par with most sides even without using a CWL.

    In fact, this may be yet another reason for him NOT to have one. If he had both bonuses applying to his units, enemies would be able to see that effect (it is confirmed that Bonuses have a visible effect on Stats, Janice saw Sizemore's stats change when Parson was appointed) and thus particularly insightful enemies might be able to deduce that Charlescomm units have an unrealistically high bonus in place. That puts a target on his back, and until now his entire schtick has been flying under the radar as an asset rather than a threat.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:47 pm 
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    Spicymancer wrote:
    Hmm. Assuming he really did honestly want Parson working for him, his treasury blindness really would have made him an ideal employee for Charlie.


    Woah. Parson really IS the ultimate warlord. It's just that he's the ultimate warlord FOR CHARLIE. He can't see Charlie's treasury (so, no security risk there), he's a brilliant strategist who can think quickly on the fly (which is what Charlie prizes most in his elite Archons), and is also inclined to fight against Fate ("Roses are red..."). IN ADDITION he came with the Bracer, which Charlie really wanted.

    It's just ironic that Charlie's Ultimate Warlord was fated to kill him. Small, but significant detail.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:47 am 
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    Lawence of Awabia wrote:
    Spicymancer wrote:
    Hmm. Assuming he really did honestly want Parson working for him, his treasury blindness really would have made him an ideal employee for Charlie.


    Woah. Parson really IS the ultimate warlord. It's just that he's the ultimate warlord FOR CHARLIE. He can't see Charlie's treasury (so, no security risk there), he's a brilliant strategist who can think quickly on the fly (which is what Charlie prizes most in his elite Archons), and is also inclined to fight against Fate ("Roses are red..."). IN ADDITION he came with the Bracer, which Charlie really wanted.

    It's just ironic that Charlie's Ultimate Warlord was fated to kill him. Small, but significant detail.


    Here's a thought, is Parson Fated to croak Charlie or the Overlord of Charlescomm? I suspect the former since Marie probably wouldn't make such an obvious oversight, but Carnies can manipulate Fates...

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     Post Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:09 pm 
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    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    While Achons aren't humanoid, that doesn't mean they can't be promoted to warlords. Goblins can. Charlie just chooses not to (since the Archons would then be able to see his treasuries)

    Citation needed.

    There has never been an instance of Gobwins being made into warlords within the pages of the comic. Promoted to heavy, yes. Promoted to knight, yes. But we've never seen a natural ally be a warlord. And as far as we know, Archons are intrinsically knights. We are told that they are knight units, so that should mean that they can't be anything else.

    Yeah, I'm not sure where I read it. Think it was second-hand information with someone siting the glossary of one of the printed books, which listed what gobwins could be promoted to. Don't own it myself so I can't verify.


    I brought this up at one point in the not-too-distant past, but it pertains to Hobbos:
    Book 1 Glossary wrote:
    Hobgobwins: A tough type of humanoid Natural Ally. May be promoted to knight class, heavy class, or warlord.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:34 pm 
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    CarniDollMancer wrote:
    I brought this up at one point in the not-too-distant past, but it pertains to Hobbos:
    Book 1 Glossary wrote:
    Hobgobwins: A tough type of humanoid Natural Ally. May be promoted to knight class, heavy class, or warlord.

    So, that's a printed book only thing?

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     Post Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:11 am 
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    Omnimancer wrote:
    It's never actually been stated that only warlords can be appointed chief.

    You should check out the first parts of Book 1. It is totally evident there that only warlords can become chief warlords.

    I mean, shouldn't be surprising, it is called chief warlord after all.

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    I was hoping we could debate the meaning of "agent" in the the Declaration of Non-Aggression again. It totally hasn't been argued to death already.

    You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:19 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    CarniDollMancer wrote:
    I brought this up at one point in the not-too-distant past, but it pertains to Hobbos:
    Book 1 Glossary wrote:
    Hobgobwins: A tough type of humanoid Natural Ally. May be promoted to knight class, heavy class, or warlord.

    So, that's a printed book only thing?

    Yeah, as far as I know. The other interesting entry in the Glossary is the one on Portals. It says that they are USUALLY in Capitals, not 'they appear only in the MK and Capitals.'

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     Post Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:31 am 
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    The other times they are in capitols.

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